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Boulder, CO climber moving to East Coast
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Jan 6, 2017
Joseph Dul wrote:
OH! added bonus, if i remember correctly, EMS started in NH, and had one of the nation's first climbing schools, correct me anyone if i'm wrong please.


EMS's first real store was the Comm. Ave store in Boston.
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
1,850 points
Jan 6, 2017
North Conway is the best spot in the Northeast IMO, there you actually do have outdoor access somewhat comparable to Boulder. Unfortunately it's a bit farther away from civilization and he's already compromising on extending his commute to >1h. You're more likely to have to drive through some nasty Winter weather up there and nowhere in NH has the progressive vibe of New Paltz which may be important to the OP from Boulder. jdejace
From New England
Joined Sep 20, 2013
0 points
Jan 6, 2017
I think that for Boulder like accessibility living near Charlotte NC is your best bet. You could live in one of the foot hills towns like Hickory, Morganton or in the Charlotte suburbs, be about an hour (or much less) from the airport, and within a couple of hours of most of the climbing in NC plus weekend trips to Tennessee, RRG and NRG. The southeast has the most consistent year round climbing in the country and generally lacks the crowds of the North East and West.

Charlotte is a United hub so there are lots of direct flights just about everywhere and other than occasional thunderstorms no weather delays. Some town life but no where near as crazy as the big cities in the North East. The quantity of the rock climbing is certainly less than the west but the quality and diversity is equal (or better). Plus you have a local chosspile just like all those local Colorado crags (Crowders Mountain). The cost of living is an order of magnitude lower than the Front Range or southeast (only a slight exaggeration).
Alexander K
From Boulder, CO
Joined Oct 26, 2014
0 points
Jan 6, 2017
OP here:

Once again, to everyone who has replied I really do appreciate it! I am reading every comment, and through the litany of response I think I have started to figure out what it is I want to pursue.

I don't know if I can pass up the opportunity to experience something so incredibly new and fresh that moving to the east will represent. I have lived my entire life within an hour radius of Boulder and my parents still live here. I think that will make coming back to Colorado really easy if I hate it out east. Plus my company is based out of Boulder, so if I really hate it I can hopefully convince them to bring me back. If not I can quit and go back to school or become a dirtbag.

I also don't think that I want to try and replicate my experiences here in Boulder. New Paltz sounds pretty awesome, but really why would I leave a climbing meca to live next to another slightly worse (different) climbing meca with inherently worse weather that complicates climbing a ton. I also will be traveling to different cities on the east coast regularly and if half my time is away from home I won't take full advantage of the climbing.

I am now seriously considering NYC. I have friends from Colorado that I could at least know in the city (Manhattan I think) and it seems like a pretty great opportunity and maybe the only time of my life that I could ever live there. I could also potentially try it out for a few months and move to another city if I don't like it. Maybe Boston?

A couple questions you can help me out with:

  • If I were to move to NYC and needed to regularly travel to Boston, Philly, and DC where would you suggest I live? I will have to travel else where(internationally) but I would likely have more notice and getting to and from an airport(if its annoying) for less often travel doesn't seem too bad too me. Manhattan sounds awesome and seems like a full valued NYC experience, but I don't want to live there if travel to/from boston, DC, and philly is extremely inconvenient.

  • Is it worth it for the experience to live in NYC if I am traveling 50ish% of the time? With that much travel my climbing would be non-existant outside of the gym maybe, but the city life might still be worth it. It takes a lot less planning to get home from travel and go to a show than to climb hard outside.

  • Should I bring a car? I know a car in manhattan is more trouble than its worth, but is the same true of brooklyn or queens? Is the easiest way to travel to neighboring cities (boston/dc/philly) by car or by train/flying?


Again, thanks to everyone for your comments. I am excited for whatever I choose. I am also excited to re-read all of these comments a few months after I make my decision and laugh at myself for how naive I was. This is a fun debate thread and I am sorry for the full length story of this post.
trice Rice
Joined Mar 9, 2014
0 points
Jan 6, 2017
I can't answer most of your recent questions as when I was in NYC, I didn't have to go to the airport often. A car is not necessary and you could rent one for infrequent jaunts to the North/ mountains.

What I can say is that If you are stoked on the idea of living in NYC then you should do it. As I stated before, an opportunity to live elsewhere and travel is usually worth it. You will gain a breadth of experiences and perspectives otherwise unattainable.

Be ready though. It is intense and can seem rough. There are a lot of friendly people there though.

I've tried to analyze the differences between Colorado and New York as far as interpersonal relationships and in my experience, the way the ice is broken and topics of discussion are usually different.

Here, we can say hi to a stranger and someone will respond. In NYC, you might get strange looks if you're randomly saying hi. Usually, you must be introduced.

Here when there's a discussion, the topics range from how someone has been walking their dog to what they did for fun over the weekend. In NY, people usually ask what you do for a living within the first few sentences. Financial/material status seems to be more of a focus there.

If you have parents here that you can move back to, it makes the situation so much easier.

If you can forego climbing for a while and are stoked on a huiuuuge city, do it. The food, culture, design, fashion and overall diversity is almost unparalleled. You'll gain depth for sure. I think 50-60% travel is ayait if you're just going back to the city and not worrying about outdoor stuff as much.

Keep us posted!
Ralph Swansen
From Denver CO
Joined Nov 24, 2012
270 points
Jan 6, 2017
CT? Shoot me now. Please. Healyje
From PDX
Joined Jan 31, 2006
100 points
Jan 6, 2017
I get the NYC thing.... I really do. I love that place. But let's be serious: With that much travelling, he will never get the real experience. He will feel like a stranger or a just a visitor, constantly. You have to live there, hit the streets, hang out at bars, get in the rhythm, etc. It'll just be a blur of Penn Station and LaGuardia, nights away from home, an expensive apartment just gathering dust. For free time he is going to end up leaving the city, to be in the woods. End result: Never got to know the city, never got the full monty, not worth it. Russ Keane
Joined Feb 8, 2013
70 points
Jan 6, 2017
Best answer: Live in the city for a year. You'll learn the ropes and have new experiences. Maybe you'll love it, probably hate it. Then move to New Paltz for a year. For the rest of your life that year will be remembered as magical.
Then for Gods sake move back to Boulder.
ThomasK
Joined May 18, 2013
0 points
Jan 6, 2017
Russ Keane wrote:
I get the NYC thing.... I really do. I love that place. But let's be serious: With that much travelling, he will never get the real experience. He will feel like a stranger or a just a visitor, constantly. You have to live there, hit the streets, hang out at bars, get in the rhythm, etc. It'll just be a blur of Penn Station and LaGuardia, nights away from home, an expensive apartment just gathering dust. For free time he is going to end up leaving the city, to be in the woods. End result: Never got to know the city, never got the full monty, not worth it.


I disagree. If the woods can be sacrificed, with traveling 50% of the time and no car. Living right in the city.
Ralph Swansen
From Denver CO
Joined Nov 24, 2012
270 points
Jan 6, 2017
OP sounds so innocent, I feel like we are releasing a little bird out into the Wild.

I agree with OP's assessment. Even if Boulder is a fantastic place to live for climbing and other mountain pasttimes, he has lived here for 2 decades (guessing) and another 5 years here will be more of the same. Instead, he can check out some new experiences, cultures, and even new crags.

I agree there is not a huge reason to try out a similar but less-so (in terms of access and weather) Boulder when the point is new experiences.

As OP said, his parents live here and he will be back regularly for holidays, and as realizes, he can always return. Boulder is not going anywhere.

I was born in NYC but never lived there. My cousin lives there, as well as some other friends, and I know the cost of rent is staggering. My cousin bought a studio and it costs more than her parent's huge house in upstate NY (although like a baller she leaves the studio empty for visiting friends & family, since she rents a bigger place now). I'd try out Craigslist room shares first. When I lived in DC (2010-2011) the average 1-bedroom rent was $2,100. My first rent was $900/month (shared with 1 other girl, W/D, own designated parking space) a few streets from the metro & work, and THEN I found a room with my own 1/2 bath, house W/D and designated parking space, right across the street from the Metro, 1 stop away from DCA airport and 1/4 a mile from work taking the bike path.... for freaking $350/month. I had 4 roommates but my own room (okay, I lived in the dining room, and also leased a storage unit for my stuff so it was more like $450 total before utilities, but still). It was an insane deal that was hard to leave. I moved to Cincinnati Ohio afterwards where I found climbing. Some people are surprised I started climbing there versus somewhere like Denver, but having zero friends and family there I was forced to try many new things.

Best way to get around NYC, Boston, DC is public transit- subway (NYC, DC), light rail (Boston). Train is how you get to the other major cities since they don't have to sit in traffic. There are also direct city-to-city buses such as Megabus, Chinatown Bus line (and now Greyhound Express) which has great deals and fewer stops than Greyhound that connect all the cities there. And they can take the HOA lane and you can sleep on it (Double decker buses are best to get a great view and I liked hogging a whole row. They also have cushy seats, wi-fi, & stop at gas stations with subway to load up on junk food.) I took the bus from DC to Boston for $25 each way. Probably renting a car such as zipcar for those times you need it is least frustrating and most cost efficient. Due to your extensive travel, it also sounds like a car would be more expensive (insurance, registration, parking, gas, maintenance) than it's worth. It's easy for me to say though... I know people in Midwestern towns who rely on public transit, but even in DC I had a car. Maybe if there is cheap storage outside the city you can store your car there.

If you're a hetero male the dating might be better in NYC than in Denver/Boulder. The ratio of females to males is much higher in NYC & the East Coast than it is out West.

It sounds like the whole MP community is behind you, so you have a place to meet others or ask questions wherever you go, and your parents' home in Boulder as a base should you and whenever you decide to come back.

Russ Keane wrote:
With that much travelling, he will never get the real experience. He will feel like a stranger or a just a visitor, constantly. ...End result: Never got to know the city, never got the full monty, not worth it.

I disagree. If it's the full monty or nothing, then no tourists would ever visit NYC.
Ralph Swansen wrote:
The food, culture, design, fashion and overall diversity is almost unparalleled.

Fashion lol. OP is gonna be well-dressed!
Ana Tine
Joined Dec 7, 2012
0 points
Jan 6, 2017
Healyje wrote:
CT? Shoot me now. Please.



SMH.. As you command your high and mighty-ness.
Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Joined Jul 21, 2012
40 points
Jan 6, 2017
To the OP: Here are some real answers. I live in NYC and regularly leave the city for fun. I have a car, but unless you want to have it to go climbing and hiking upstate, it won't be worth it for you. Parking everywhere in NYC is a pain, I rent a parking spot, if I didn't I might not want to deal with the car. Going to D.C. or Boston is most easily done by train, buses are also frequent, easy and cheaper, but less comfortable. Manhattan is the most convenient place to be for leaving via train/bus. For airports, LGA sucks, but is closest to Manhattan. JFK isn't super convenient to get to for any neighborhood that you'd want to be in, but taking the right combo of trains isn't too bad. EWR(Newark) is in NJ, but can be as quick as JFK from Manhattan. Manhattan isn't necessarily more expensive rent than the hippest places in Brooklyn/Queens. If you can afford it, high rent is prob worth it for the amenities you'll have access to, living in cheap neighborhoods in NY is a pain, I've done it, and if you're too far from the good stuff you won't take advantage of it. It's a huge city and can take a long time to get from one point to another. The google maps app has subway directions, use it to figure out what areas you might be ok living in while maintaining an easy commute to penn station for train/bus travel, or distance to a climbing gym, or whatever you really need to be near. Last thing, everything including groceries is way more expensive here, don't underestimate that impact, also NYC has its own income tax, which really adds up on top of NY State's high income taxes. AHP
Joined May 4, 2013
0 points
Jan 6, 2017
Gunkiemike wrote:
I look at it this way - some folks are city folks. They love what a vibrant, large city offers, want it all within reach, don't mind not owning a car, and for this there is arguably no place better on earth than NYC. Other folks are country/outdoors folk. Have little-to-no use for the hustle and bustle of a dense metropolitan area, absolutely need open space and rigorous experience. For these folks, Colorado is pretty F'in close to perfect. A bit expensive and trendy in Boulder perhaps (and traffic is getting BAD; SIXTEEN lanes on Rt 36, are you kidding me??), but it is highly sought after for good reason. Most folks fall somewhere in the middle. Where are you?


"rigorous experience" - That sums it up for me.
J Antin
From Golden, CO
Joined May 13, 2009
690 points
Jan 6, 2017
If you're looking outside Manhattan, Hoboken/Jersey City can be cheaper and more convenient to Manhattan than much of Brooklyn or Queens. And you avoid the NYC income tax. steverett
From San Diego, CA
Joined Feb 9, 2012
15 points
Jan 6, 2017
I live in Brooklyn. I would not necessarily recommend that the OP move to NYC. It depends on what you can afford and how much you want the benefits of the city, which have nothing to do with climbing.

Climbing-wise, living in NYC is definitely a disadvantage compared with many other potential locations.

I would like to correct some misinformation in this thread. If you attempt to leave NYC at rush hour it will suck for you. But I am a regular Gunkie and I do it all the time as a day trip. If you leave early in the morning on a weekend (I'm talking about 6:30 or 7:00 am) you will encounter no traffic at all and you will get to the Gunks, door-to-door, reliably in under two hours. This is from BROOKLYN. I do it all the time. If I lived in Northern Manhattan instead of Brooklyn it would be more like an hour and a half.

Coming back home in the evening is a different story; it often takes 2.5 hours or more, depending on traffic at the bridges and tunnels. Also on a weekday you must head out earlier to make it to the Gunks in as reliably quick a fashion. I would try to leave my house in Brooklyn at more like 6:00 on a weekday to get up there without traffic.

Also the Trailways bus from Port Authority is very convenient if you don't have a car. It takes you to the middle of New Paltz and you can take a cab or walk to Rock and Snow and see if anyone will give you a lift to the crag.

And about crowds in the Gunks: if you climb harder than 5.6 you won't find the crowding to be much a problem except during the peakiest of peak weekends.
SethG
Joined Aug 17, 2009
170 points
Jan 6, 2017
steverett wrote:
If you're looking outside Manhattan, Hoboken/Jersey City can be cheaper and more convenient to Manhattan than much of Brooklyn or Queens. And you avoid the NYC income tax.


shoot me now thats cray cray
T Roper
From DC,VA,NM,UT,CT,MA
Joined Mar 31, 2006
730 points
Jan 6, 2017
Yet something else to consider:

If all you care about is being in the mountains with close access to an airport, could you live in Manchester, NH, Concord, NH or Burlington, VT?

There is a year round mountain community in the Whites/Green mountains.. as long as you do rock, ice, and skiing, you'll almost always have something to do. The ice and rock in NH can hold its own to anything out there... and between the Green mountains and the White mountains, the backcountry skiing is good enough to fet your fix.

I'm a huge fan of the White Mountains, the gem of the East in my opinion.
ChrisN
From Morro Bay, CA
Joined Oct 14, 2014
0 points
Jan 6, 2017
T Roper wrote:
shoot me now thats cray cray

Actually, I'm with Steve on the Hoboken / JC suggestion. I recently left NJ (yes, for better recreational opportunities out west) and travelled quite a bit for work. The NJ side of the Hudson offers MUCH better airport access than Manhattan and it is still easy to get to the AmTrak station in Newark to get to Boston, Philly or D.C. for business trips (although in theory flying to Boston or D.C. Is faster, AmTrak is more predictable for northeast cities). Also easier to get to mountains on the weekend since there won't be any need to cross a bridge or tunnel.

Hoboken is no bargain - Jersey City will depend on the neighborhood. My guess is it would be easier to keep a car there, but can't speak from experience. Hoboken has a bar scene, but granted it is not Manhattan - it's easy enough to hop the PATH train to Manhattan, but getting back to NJ late at night might be a PITA (also can't speak from experience). Currently there is no rock gym in the immediate area and not sure if/when Gravity Vault will get the zoning approved for the proposed Hoboken location.
MKGreen
Joined Mar 29, 2016
5 points
Jan 6, 2017
steverett wrote:
If you're looking outside Manhattan, Hoboken/Jersey City can be cheaper and more convenient to Manhattan than much of Brooklyn or Queens. And you avoid the NYC income tax.

About damn time!
Given that you will be traveling the eastern corridors
Central Northern New Jersey !!

particularly a narrow corridor, running north from Newark int. Airport to not farther than an hours dive to NYC. Morris county, Essex county.

Unfortunately this is the area home to both choss and. "illegal climbing".
but there is some climbing. Gravity Vaults, gyms in Chatam & Upper Saddle River, they are a franchise group that just opened the gym that rgold spoke of, near the Gunks in Poughkeepsie (?,I think.)



Along with Excellent trail running, lots of good residential options are available. Condos, lake homes, house share/fully furnished rentals, Etc.


Also. Active college towns, and the towns around the larger schools

EDIT: NJ Climbing?
Farther north there is a newly opened pile of big rocks that will make you laugh & cry; the Powerlinz.
And more rural, north west;
Sparta NJ,( home to a good number of airline industry personal)
Or another of the lake communities
Even that far north-west, bus and trains run like clock work, to the city
and there are a variety of 'locals only - almost worthy' climbing options.

From Morristown ( where ther is an airport )
the Gunks is 1:45 hr drive( rt287 to Rt87 @18 NwPltz)

Having now gone back and read,
I think that you need to look at quality of the summer environment.
The humidity here in the east may slow your high altitude roll.

The thread started by recommending the wrong parts of Connecticut. You need to be on the western or south western edge. 90 miles or 1hour drive from NYC & the Gunks!



Edit,mmmm while I was trying to be coherent some one mentioned one of the
coolest most 'Boulder-like' towns in t NORTH East, ~ BURLINGTON Vermont, ?
Travel times and snow seasons will remind you of Colorado.
Michael Schneider
Joined Apr 24, 2014
85 points
Administrator
Jan 6, 2017
To try to answer some of your latest questions, I'll pop in. I'm in the NY metro area and I've lived here for a long, long time. My husband and I came here for work and my MBA, and we climb, bike, and ski.

While it's nice to have a NYC address, you might consider Hoboken or Jersey City. You have more likelihood of finding an apartment with available parking at a cost that's less. You'll be able to head for Newark Airport to fly places, and drive to the Gunks and other places.

I'd advocate for the fun you'll have. You'll probably do a lot of fun things over the weekends, even if on a particular weekend you don't get outdoors to climb. There are just so many things to do in the NY metro area.

A great part of your happiness depends on the fun you have doing your job. If you're going to be on the road, and if you're not having fun with whoever you see for business, you won't be having a lot of fun between.

As for the train, well, I'd like to say it works well for me. I live on the main line between NY and Philadelphia, which puts me near some sort of midpoint between DC and Boston.

We chose to live 100 yards from a train station. We chose to live 15 minutes from Newark Airport. That combination has gotten me into the city when multiple kinds of transportation have failed. If the roads were impassable, the train worked. If the train was out of service, bus service worked. I know about 15 ways of getting to the same locations in NYC.

My husband and I changed jobs, changed industries, changed job types and still we thrived. There's more choice here in the NY metro area.

From Newark, there are lots of flights to Boston or DC. Philadelphia is more of a drive or train trip.

No location is perfect. By train, I could never get to locations on the CT train line in time for any normal meetings.

And for long trips, I have had more luck either flying or driving. Maybe it's me -- I could have some sort of very bad luck.

One time I chose to take a train home from DC rather than fly. My flight was cancelled because of bad thunderstorms. What happened when I switched? Well, the pantograph was struck by lightening. I sat in a crowded train somewhere between Trenton, NJ and Princeton, NJ for about 8 hours. I finally reached home at 3 am, I think. But really, it's possible to take the train if you're not as unlucky as I.
SMarsh
From NY, NY
Joined Sep 14, 2013
3 points
Jan 7, 2017
Russ Keane wrote:
I get the NYC thing.... I really do. I love that place. But let's be serious: With that much travelling, he will never get the real experience. He will feel like a stranger or a just a visitor, constantly. You have to live there, hit the streets, hang out at bars, get in the rhythm, etc. It'll just be a blur of Penn Station and LaGuardia, nights away from home, an expensive apartment just gathering dust. For free time he is going to end up leaving the city, to be in the woods. End result: Never got to know the city, never got the full monty, not worth it.


I agree, the entire adventure sounds compromised due to the nature of their employment. 'Living' in NYC is expensive and I can't shake the notion that it's going to be an expensive, wasted experiment.

As for the culture - well, I've lived in a few smaller cities and have at one point in my life traveled to NYC and Boston numerous times (personal and business). There was no lure for me to pack up my things and move there. Quite the opposite, it only made me appreciate rural living and my trips to the mountains. With the internet I can visit "culture" anytime I want. Heck, many museums are putting their works online. I guess if I wanted a diverse sex life then a larger city = more mates. lol Otherwise I struggle to find the draw, considering all the drawbacks, for someone truly outdoorsy to live in a metropolitan area.
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,361 points
Jan 7, 2017
+1 What Seth said above 100%. When I lived in Queens (which is more North than Brooklyn), just off BQE, it was 1.5 hours for me to get to the Gunks. At night, the best way to minimize your travel time is to grab dinner/drink in New Paltz and get on the road as late as possible.

I would not live in NJ - PATH is nice but not as convenient as the NY subway system (late nights and weekends that is).

Here is a little NYC geography lesson - both airports in New York are in Queens. JFK is more of an international hub, or for long distance flights that go to the West Coast, plus it has JetBlue based out of it. LGA is more of a regional hub, most likely airshuttles you take within the Eastern corridor are going to be in and out of LGA. While Brooklyn and Queens are seemingly close, the way the subway system is built is you need to go through Manhattan in order to travel between the two (there are subway lines between the two, but they are not as reliable or convenient). The third airport that is in NJ, Newark-Liberty is similar to JFK - most likely long distance flights, and is good for if you exclusively travel on Continental.

If I were you, I would probably live somewhere in NW Queens preferably close to LIRR station (either within walking distance say within 10 blocks or a just a few subway stops away from it). (LIRR gets you to the Amtrak station in Manhattan in minutes, also shortens your travel time to JFK airport). You can also get to LGA in 5-10 minutes for about $10 Mexican cab ride (there are a ton around there, it just depends on the neighborhood, which one you choose. The trick is to get the rate quoted by the dispatcher when you first book it, otherwise it gets expensive). There are also Chinatown buses that will get you to Philly/Boston/DC for cheap, but they're not for the faint of heart (one time, one guy got us to to NYC from Boston in under 3 hours while talking on the cell phone non-stop).

The key is to decipher the neighborhood names and study maps to see how close they're to the public transportation. My favorite map (besides the subway map) is the NYC bike map: nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclis... It has the neighborhood names, street numbers/names and public transport info. You can pm if you need more info.
doligo
Joined Sep 26, 2008
212 points
Jan 7, 2017
I'd have to go with Hoboken also

If you like Boulder CO you will love Hoboken NJ
DGoguen
Joined Jan 7, 2017
0 points
Jan 7, 2017
Healyje wrote:
CT? Shoot me now. Please.


Youd love it Joe, gyms all over the place, bolted routes popping up all over and bouldering galore. Plus you have over a thousand serious hardman trad routes where hitting the ground on lead is almost expected on occasion.

Now back to how great Hoboken is!
T Roper
From DC,VA,NM,UT,CT,MA
Joined Mar 31, 2006
730 points
Jan 7, 2017
really everyone should experience the thrills of Meridan at least once.... john strand
From southern colo
Joined May 22, 2008
1,575 points


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