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Bolted anchor biner replacement
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Oct 20, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: guide book
Came across some semi grooved biners the other day at an anchor and realized that in my pack I have nothing to replace them with. So the question is for the route developers and safety conscious folk out there.

What seems to be a good "goto" steel biner for replacing old worn links and biners ?
thebmags
Joined Jun 5, 2013
156 points
Oct 20, 2015
Mussy hooks attached to anchor bolts/hangers with quick links are the best.
Like this


One option for purchase
amarius
Joined Feb 23, 2012
23 points
Administrator
Oct 20, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lich...
Not everybody is a fan of Mussy hooks and their crappy "gates". Even the climbing specific SS biners' gates tend to freeze up or get floppy after a while since the springs don't hold up. I prefer anchors without moving parts, like just two heavy quicklinks or quiucklink and ring combo on each bolt, or if you want something you can just drop your rope into, ramshorns. M Sprague
From New England
Joined Nov 9, 2006
6,307 points
Oct 20, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Estes Park Yart
M Sprague wrote:
Not everybody is a fan of Mussy hooks and their crappy "gates". Even the climbing specific SS biners' gates tend to freeze up or get floppy after a while since the springs don't hold up. I prefer anchors without moving parts, like just two heavy quicklinks or quiucklink and ring combo on each bolt, or if you want something you can just drop your rope into, ramshorns.


+1
Brent Apgar
From Out of the Loop
Joined Oct 20, 2007
176 points
Oct 20, 2015
DQ introduced ramhorns (a pair per top anchors) to Rumney and after using them for a while, I am thinking they are the best :) S. Neoh
Joined Oct 4, 2009
563 points
Administrator
Oct 20, 2015
In Rifle we use steel "gym" biners.

camp-usa.com/products/carabine...
John Byrnes
From Fort Collins, CO
Joined Dec 11, 2007
451 points
Oct 20, 2015

RamHorns
amarius
Joined Feb 23, 2012
23 points
Administrator
Oct 20, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Pulling the lip on Angle of the Dangle. Photo by S...
We started to use the Climb Tech, or Trango steel biners, only about $6 per biner, and really hold up well. Even our most popular routes only show a little wear after a year. And they have a keeper to stop them from flipping or getting stolen. Micah Klesick
From Vancouver, WA
Joined Aug 18, 2013
4,237 points
Oct 20, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: At the BRC
Other options-

trango.com/p-247-steel-wiregat...

climbtechgear.com/permadraws/
Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Joined Nov 29, 2007
516 points
Oct 20, 2015
S. Neoh wrote:
DQ introduced ramhorns (a pair per top anchors) to Rumney and after using them for a while, I am thinking they are the best :)


+1. Modern REPLACEABLE version of cold shuts. What goes around comes around...
Eric Engberg
Joined Apr 28, 2009
2 points
Administrator
Oct 20, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lich...
BoltProducts seems to call the Ramshorns Pigtails and the SS ones are much cheaper than the titanium ones. Nice as they are, I think the titanium ones are overkill in most instances, unless you are in a high corrosion area or have a high budget. SS horns are more likely to wear out (can be easily replaced) long before they would corrode most times at popular US areas.

At Rumney we find the expensive clippy type anchors just don't seem to hold up well and aren't worth the expense. A good portion of the gates seem to fail quickly.
M Sprague
From New England
Joined Nov 9, 2006
6,307 points
Oct 20, 2015
M Sprague wrote:
SS horns are more likely to wear out (can be easily replaced) long before they would corrode most times at popular US areas.

Would you recommend using QuickLinks to attach horns to anchors?
amarius
Joined Feb 23, 2012
23 points
Oct 20, 2015
M Sprague wrote:
At Rumney we find the expensive clippy type anchors just don't seem to hold up well and aren't worth the expense. A good portion of the gates seem to fail quickly.

Sadly, this has proven to be the case at Rumney. Not too long ago, I experienced "lame gate" on two separate quickies in a short day of climbing and cleaning.
S. Neoh
Joined Oct 4, 2009
563 points
Administrator
Oct 20, 2015
M Sprague wrote:
Nice as they are, I think the titanium ones are overkill in most instances, unless you are in a high corrosion area or have a high budget. SS horns are more likely to wear out (can be easily replaced) long before they would corrode most times at popular US areas.


I agree with you about the stainless rams horns, but disagree with the "high budget" comment.

Titanium has a much higher resistance to abrasion than stainless. In the Brac we lower directly from the Ti anchor bolts. This year I took a micrometer and tried to measure the wear on the anchor bolts on the most popular route there, which was rebolted with Ti in 2000. The wear was unmeasureable. You could see a polished area, and feel the difference in texture, but the wear was < .001".

So if titanium rams horns last ten times longer (or more) than stainless, but only cost about twice as much, is it really fair to call them "high budget"?

FYI: Ti rams horns US$12.50
John Byrnes
From Fort Collins, CO
Joined Dec 11, 2007
451 points
Administrator
Oct 20, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lich...
John Byrnes wrote:
I agree with you about the stainless rams horns, but disagree with the "high budget" comment. Titanium has a much higher resistance to abrasion than stainless. In the Brac we lower directly from the Ti anchor bolts. This year I took a micrometer and tried to measure the wear on the anchor bolts on the most popular route there, which was rebolted with Ti in 2000. The wear was unmeasureable. You could see a polished area, and feel the difference in texture, but the wear was < .001". So if titanium rams horns last ten times longer (or more) than stainless, but only cost about twice as much, is it really fair to call them "high budget"? FYI: Ti rams horns US$12.50


Good points. I have been wondering about the wear resistance of titanium for a while but hadn't seen any reference to it until you mentioned it. We should try a few on some of the more popular Rumney routes and see how they do. Since the RCA (and other organizations) can cover the expense through donations and they wouldn't be directly from an individual's wallet who may be living paycheck to paycheck, the economics may indeed make more sense over time.
M Sprague
From New England
Joined Nov 9, 2006
6,307 points
Oct 20, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: guide book
Thanks for all the advice guys looks like ramhorns it is for now. I wonder if we could get the BD QC labs to do some testing even though it not their product. If not I'd be down to throw a couple bucks in for science thebmags
Joined Jun 5, 2013
156 points
Oct 20, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Climbing at the Gallery in Red Rocks
thebmags wrote:
Came across some semi grooved biners the other day at an anchor and realized that in my pack I have nothing to replace them with. So the question is for the route developers and safety conscious folk out there. What seems to be a good "goto" steel biner for replacing old worn links and biners ?


the Trango steel wiregates are my favorites, they're inexpensive, they last a long time and the clipping action is great. The Omega gym-lite clips really well, but is super expensive. Most other steel biners (climb tech, fixe, camp, etc.) don't seem to be very easy to clip in my opinion.
kennoyce
From Layton, UT
Joined Aug 12, 2010
2,061 points
Oct 20, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: en route to wham ridge  Photo by Carl Schnitker
I much prefer the steel gym biner to the ramshorn because it is much more familiar to the majority of climbers. Plus, the trango ones are pretty cheap, only around $6-7 apiece. I am interested in Ti's resistance to wear, though, so I wish Titan made Ti Biners like the the steel ones trango makes. I'd love to never need to replace the anchor biners at my home crag eli poss
From Durango, Co
Joined May 9, 2014
427 points
Administrator
Oct 20, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lich...
It only takes a couple of uses of the ramhorns to get used to them. Peeople at Rumney seem to be tuning right in. M Sprague
From New England
Joined Nov 9, 2006
6,307 points
Oct 20, 2015
thebmags wrote:
Thanks for all the advice guys looks like ramhorns it is for now. I wonder if we could get the BD QC labs to do some testing even though it not their product. If not I'd be down to throw a couple bucks in for science


Not gonna happen, to much liability/bad blood from testing/commenting on another company's product. Need an independent tester ala consumer reports for that.

I must say, I'm impressed this hasn't devolved into gumbies screaming LNT!!!, WILDERNESS!!, etc yet. Hope this doesn't jinx it.
Rob T
Joined Jun 20, 2006
26 points
Oct 20, 2015
Geez Whiz, Eric, do you have to remind us of the half worn aluminum open cold shuts which were widely used in the early/mid 90's, esp at Owens? What a nightmare, made quite an impression, could really ruin one's day.
Mark, I am willing to contribute to the cause of equipping the most popular routes at Rumney (and we certainly know which ones) with Ti ramhorns when it is time to replace the worn quickies. However, the trick is not to publicly disclose which climbs have Ti and which ones do not. It may make people less willing to TR through their own draws if they are under the impression the ramhorns will "last forever". I still see the occasional party working a route on TR directly through the steel quickies, esp at the lower crags where newbies were deemed lack the knowledge to clean the anchor draws without being a threat to themselves and others.
S. Neoh
Joined Oct 4, 2009
563 points
Oct 20, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: en route to wham ridge  Photo by Carl Schnitker
M Sprague wrote:
It only takes a couple of uses of the ramhorns to get used to them. Peeople at Rumney seem to be tuning right in.

Perhaps this is true, but to somebody who isn't used to them, they may seem less safe than a pair of biners. What about hypothetical gumbies that think they're unsafe and decide to lower through the quicklinks/chains attaching them to the anchor? Then you get a kinky rope, and not the good kind of kinky.

Plus, they're more expensive than the Trango steel biners and when I'm paying out of pocket I'm going to go with the cheapest option that doesn't sacrifice safety or durability. Also, we have a problem here in Durango, with asshats stealing fixed hardware so the pin on the steel biners is a necessity.
eli poss
From Durango, Co
Joined May 9, 2014
427 points
Oct 21, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Climbing at the Gallery in Red Rocks
eli poss wrote:
Perhaps this is true, but to somebody who isn't used to them, they may seem less safe than a pair of biners. What about hypothetical gumbies that think they're unsafe and decide to lower through the quicklinks/chains attaching them to the anchor? Then you get a kinky rope, and not the good kind of kinky. Plus, they're more expensive than the Trango steel biners and when I'm paying out of pocket I'm going to go with the cheapest option that doesn't sacrifice safety or durability. Also, we have a problem here in Durango, with asshats stealing fixed hardware so the pin on the steel biners is a necessity.


who cares if gumbys are kinking their own rope, that's their choice and doesn't affect you in any way. If the ramshorns (especially Ti) last 10 times as long as the biners, then you have to replace the biners less often so it makes up for the difference in cost. As far as steeling the fixed hardware, yeah, that's probably not going to happen with ramshorns since there really isn't any use for them other than as an anchor.

Personally I do like biners more than ramshorns, but only because they are generally easier to get the rope into. Anywhere that clipping the anchor is nice and easy I see no reason to use biners over a ramshorn.

Also, I know some places are going to double ramshorns which I find kind of retarded, a ramshorn anchor only needs a single ramshorn not two of them, so again, the cost is pretty much irrelevant as one Ti ramshorn costs almost the same as two trango biners.
kennoyce
From Layton, UT
Joined Aug 12, 2010
2,061 points
Oct 21, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: guide book
kennoyce wrote:
who cares if gumbys are kinking their own rope, that's their choice and doesn't affect you in any way. If the ramshorns (especially Ti) last 10 times as long as the biners, then you have to replace the biners less often so it makes up for the difference in cost. As far as steeling the fixed hardware, yeah, that's probably not going to happen with ramshorns since there really isn't any use for them other than as an anchor. Personally I do like biners more than ramshorns, but only because they are generally easier to get the rope into. Anywhere that clipping the anchor is nice and easy I see no reason to use biners over a ramshorn. Also, I know some places are going to double ramshorns which I find kind of retarded, a ramshorn anchor only needs a single ramshorn not two of them, so again, the cost is pretty much irrelevant as one Ti ramshorn costs almost the same as two trango biners.


I mean double ramshorns was probably what I was going to do mostly due to the fact that I'd be using them to replace faulty/worn biners.
thebmags
Joined Jun 5, 2013
156 points
Oct 21, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Climbing at the Gallery in Red Rocks
thebmags wrote:
I mean double ramshorns was probably what I was going to do mostly due to the fact that I'd be using them to replace faulty/worn biners.


What's your reasoning for going double? Just connect a single ramshorn to the bottom of the two chains for a "V" anchor, extend the chains if needed, but there's no real reason to use two ramshorns.
kennoyce
From Layton, UT
Joined Aug 12, 2010
2,061 points
Administrator
Oct 21, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Los Alamos Reservoir area arete project. August 20...
kennoyce wrote:
What's your reasoning for going double?


From titanclimbing.com/ram%27s-horn... :

All titanium Ram's horns lower off. These are designed to be used in pairs placed 200mm horizontally apart...

I hadn't seen Ram's Horns until this thread. I'm intrigued. Very nice.
Jason Halladay
From Los Alamos, NM
Joined Oct 19, 2005
10,499 points


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