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Black Diamond Mini Pearabener - Did They Change the Design?
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Oct 12, 2016
This is my first post to the forum so I would like to say hi.
I'm writing because I have question regarding the BD Mini Pearabener.
After reading a few reviews I ordered one but it looks different than the ones I saw online. Mine looks like this:
blackdiamondequipment.com/en/c...

But the ones I read about are silver and look like this:
outdoorgearlab.com/Locking-Car...

Is it just the photo, or Black Diamond changed the design? The old one looks round on the top and bottom, mine has indentation (or flatness) side of the top and bottom part.
If they did change the design (and it's not the photo) does it alter the performance when using Munter hitch or BD ATC?

Does maybe somebody has the old and the new one and could confirm?

Thank you.
MikeMills
Joined Oct 12, 2016
10 points
Oct 12, 2016
The one you see online is the current version, which was re-designed in the past year and is now produced in the USA. The previous version (the one on outdoor gear lab) is an older model that was produced in China but is no longer made. As you have noticed there are some differences. This is the case for a number of BD products, which were changed slightly (and are all different colors) when their production switch back to the US about a year ago.

I've got both, didn't notice a performance difference, overall there very similar.
Max Forbes
From Burlington, VT
Joined Jan 6, 2014
94 points
Oct 12, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: jtree
Hi Mike: The newer design is for weight savings, but the inside profile is the largely the same, so it should peform the same with an ATC. Their might be a slight difference with a munter hitch, but I don't think you would notice it, since the friction in a munter hitch is caused by the rope against itself, not the device.

Don't forget that a mini pearbiner is not an ideal device to use with a Munter hitch to begin with, unless the rope is quite skinny.

[Edit]--the shape of the 'biner might make the 'biner itself wear faster if you used it constantly with a Munter hitch, but it would take a lot of Munter use before this would ever occur [/Edit]
ebmudder
From Bronx, NY
Joined Jul 3, 2011
48 points
Oct 13, 2016
Thanks guys. It's a good news that they make it in the US, it's a pity it does not work as well as it did with Munter hitch because that was supposed to be it's primary use (with 9mm rope). Any other BD recommendation for Munter?

I passed on BD ROCLOCK beacause it's so large. I have quite a few BD Nitrons (about 3 years old not used), but according to one review BD does not recommend it for Munter Hitch (any idea why, because I could not find any information of BD webpage? does any of you guys use Munter with Nitron?)
MikeMills
Joined Oct 12, 2016
10 points
Oct 13, 2016
DMM Sentinels, 54 grams



Sorry, not BD though.
Billcoe
Joined Mar 16, 2006
618 points
Oct 13, 2016
If you want to use the Munter hitch, you should find a round stock carabiner (cold-forged) like the Petzl Attache (not the Attache 3d) or the Rock Lock.

Many smaller carabiners today are hot forged to create the I-Beam profile which is strong and light, but sacrifices the ability to be used as a regular biner for Munter users. I learned that lesson the hard way with an Attache 3d a few years back.

If you want a small, round-stock carabiner made in the USA, the Metolius Element is my top choice.
John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 1, 2004
2,461 points
Oct 13, 2016
John Wilder wrote:
If you want to use the Munter hitch, you should find a round stock carabiner ... I learned that lesson the hard way with an Attache 3d a few years back.




Could you elaborate? What are the dangers of using I beam profile. I do understand that current BD Pearabeaner has in fact an I-beam profile, or is it something in between?
MikeMills
Joined Oct 12, 2016
10 points
Oct 14, 2016
John Wilder wrote:
If you want to use the Munter hitch, you should find a round stock carabiner (cold-forged) like the Petzl Attache (not the Attache 3d) or the Rock Lock.


Careful, the attache is no longer a round stock biner (it's the same as the old 3D). backcountry.com/petzl-attache-...

John Wilder wrote:
If you want a small, round-stock carabiner made in the USA, the Metolius Element is my top choice.


Seconding this, love these little guys. Haven't has a problem using a munter on one with my 9.7mm rope either. (granted not something I do often, mostly to lower myself to a better belay spot for less experienced followers)

The screw gate is also a finer thread, and has a "tighter" fit so it's less likely to accidentally unlock (which I think the petzl style are prone to. For recent discussion, see: mountainproject.com/v/petzl-at...

MikeMills wrote:
Could you elaborate? What are the dangers of using I beam profile. I do understand that current BD Pearabeaner has in fact an I-beam profile, or is it something in between?

I think it's just that the munter wont run as smoothly over an i-beam profile as a round stock biner.
Brian L.
Joined Feb 19, 2016
81 points
Oct 14, 2016
I-beams are really strong on top of the 'I', but not so much when it comes to the side. I burned through most of an I-beam carabiner in about 400' of rappelling on a munter years ago. The rope abrasion burned through the sides of the top and bottom of the I cross section really quickly.

The attache was the best out there, imho. I forgot they changed it, so the Metolius is your best option.

I always carry one or two round stock carabiners with me when I'm doing long routes for this reason.
John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 1, 2004
2,461 points
Oct 14, 2016
MikeMills wrote:
Thanks guys. It's a good news that they make it in the US, it's a pity it does not work as well as it did with Munter hitch because that was supposed to be it's primary use (with 9mm rope). Any other BD recommendation for Munter? I passed on BD ROCLOCK beacause it's so large. I have quite a few BD Nitrons (about 3 years old not used), but according to one review BD does not recommend it for Munter Hitch (any idea why, because I could not find any information of BD webpage? does any of you guys use Munter with Nitron?)


If you're going to consistently use a Munter then I'd just get the RockLock. They aren't that much bigger then the mini pearabiner, and weighs 16 grams more.
Eplumer400
From Cleveland, OH
Joined May 9, 2016
33 points
Oct 14, 2016
Thank you for your input guys. So the winner is metolius element. How does it compare to DMM Sentinel that was mentioned above, cause looking at it its half round half I-beam, unless the photo is misleading. MikeMills
Joined Oct 12, 2016
10 points
Oct 14, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: jtree
MikeMills wrote:
Thank you for your input guys. So the winner is metolius element. How does it compare to DMM Sentinel that was mentioned above, cause looking at it its half round half I-beam, unless the photo is misleading.


I just got one a couple weeks ago.

Rock Climbing Photo: element round stock
element round stock


I bought it to use with an ATC in guide mode, but I ended up using it through the eye of the ATC and using full-size HMS 'biner for the rope instead.

Someone mentioned the threads are finer...this is true, and it takes quite a few more turns to lock it...I found that disconcerting at first, but got used to it pretty quick.

It's got a fairly mild curvature for use with a munter hitch, but it's quite a bit smaller. For ~$9 on sale you can find out for yourself.
ebmudder
From Bronx, NY
Joined Jul 3, 2011
48 points
Oct 14, 2016
the DMM Rhino and Wild Country Ascent also have nice round top bars FWIW Noah Yetter
From Lakewood, CO
Joined Jul 13, 2015
121 points
Oct 15, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Me
Max Forbes wrote:
The one you see online is the current version, which was re-designed in the past year and is now produced in the USA. The previous version (the one on outdoor gear lab) is an older model that was produced in China but is no longer made. As you have noticed there are some differences. This is the case for a number of BD products, which were changed slightly (and are all different colors) when their production switch back to the US about a year ago. I've got both, didn't notice a performance difference, overall there very similar.

Holding a new one and old one next to each other. Design is the same, only difference color. Differences in the picture are all from angle. My asia one would have been from towards the end of Asian assembly (the forging of the body has always taken place in Salt Lake).
JK-
From SLC
Joined Nov 3, 2012
21 points
Oct 28, 2016
Thanks for the info JK. Good to know.

To be honest, I am a little (tiny bit) disappointed. When I compare my old Nitrons (made in China) to pearabener (USA) the former seems to have smoother operation. The locking screw seems to operate smoother, the play on the locking gate hinge is less pronounced. Both are up to high BD standards, but I thought the ones made in USA will be top notch surpassing my old made in China ones. Other than that, pearabener - very happy with it, doing its job.
MikeMills
Joined Oct 12, 2016
10 points
Oct 28, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Photo by Julie Ellison
The round stock Attaches are still being made. Definitely my preferred round stock HMS biner. Trevor.
From Boise, ID
Joined Apr 16, 2012
727 points
Oct 28, 2016
Trevor. wrote:
The round stock Attaches are still being made. Definitely my preferred round stock HMS biner.


Are they?

petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Carabine...

I think you can still buy old stock, but they don't seem to be produced any more.
Brian L.
Joined Feb 19, 2016
81 points
Oct 28, 2016
Is there an "Idiot's Guide to 'Biner Selection" anywhere?

Meaning...Picture of Biner profile and call out of its intended or best practice use?

I won't ever remember all of the fancy names Petzl Attache, BD Briefcase, DMM CarryOn....but I'll certainly be able to match up a profile/shape with its purpose.



Answered my own question:

rei.com/learn/expert-advice/ca...
Tim Lau
From Hendersonville, NC
Joined Jul 21, 2016
21 points
Oct 28, 2016
Tim:

Check this website out too - weighmyrack.com
Gajewski
Joined Dec 12, 2014
7 points
Oct 28, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Photo by Julie Ellison
Brian L. wrote:
Are they? petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Carabine... I think you can still buy old stock, but they don't seem to be produced any more.

backcountry.com/petzl-hera-att...

Yep they're still making them. Seemingly only in the Blue HERA version now.
Trevor.
From Boise, ID
Joined Apr 16, 2012
727 points
Oct 28, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Me
Tim Lau wrote:
Is there an "Idiot's Guide to 'Biner Selection" anywhere? Meaning...Picture of Biner profile and call out of its intended or best practice use? I won't ever remember all of the fancy names Petzl Attache, BD Briefcase, DMM CarryOn....but I'll certainly be able to match up a profile/shape with its purpose. Answered my own question: rei.com/learn/expert-advice/ca...

outdoorgearlab.com also has great buying guides.
JK-
From SLC
Joined Nov 3, 2012
21 points
Oct 28, 2016
Trevor. wrote:
backcountry.com/petzl-hera-att... Yep they're still making them. Seemingly only in the Blue HERA version now.


Better stock up before the new year:

omniprogear.com/Petzl-carabine...
Nick Drake
From Newcastle, WA
Joined Jan 20, 2015
393 points
Oct 29, 2016
Trevor. wrote:
backcountry.com/petzl-hera-att... Yep they're still making them. Seemingly only in the Blue HERA version now.


I know you can still find them for sale, but I don't think they still make them - considering they don't list the product on their web site any more. This is just inventory that is still available. Once it's gone, it's gone
Brian L.
Joined Feb 19, 2016
81 points
Oct 29, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Running it out on easy slab. "Now where is th...
John Wilder wrote:
The attache was the best out there, imho. I forgot they changed it, so the Metolius is your best option. I always carry one or two round stock carabiners with me when I'm doing long routes for this reason.


I jealously guard several of the old Spin-Ball gate Attache's. The was the old petzl gate with the green button. It wasn't auto lock but simply 1/2 twist to lock. Love those things. They weren't popular it seemed and they were discontinued.

I agree with John that the movement of many HMS biners to the I-Beam style is a step backwards. You get all sorts of inconsistent performance in the MegaJul style devices (Smart, ClickUp etc) and they're not as great with the Münter.

EDIT after reading JK: Rock Exotica Pirate will be my next locker. Looks solid.
mattm
From TX
Joined Jun 2, 2006
1,401 points
Oct 29, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Me
John Wilder wrote:
I forgot they changed it, so the Metolius is your best option. I always carry one or two round stock carabiners with me when I'm doing long routes for this reason.

I personally despise the metolious... Takes about a zillion turns to lock the gate and is tiny for a big roundstock biner. I can see the appeal in it though. The BD rocklock is a decent option for a decently sized biner. The old petzl William is massive (to big IMO) and is still pretty easy to find.

But my personal favorite for a roundstock biner is the Rock Exotica Pirate. RE doesn't get a lot of play in recreation stuff, which is a shame because they make good stuff, mostly industrial and rescue. It's made out of the same barstock as the old attaché (Rock made the old attaché on contract for a long time), I love the size, and the gate and locking action are both awesome. Gate also opens slightly offset for a massive gate clearance. Probably my favorite HMS biner ever.

rockexotica.com/product/alumin...

JK-
From SLC
Joined Nov 3, 2012
21 points
Oct 30, 2016
These Rock exotice have really high strength ratings. I'll surely be getting a few of these. Any thoughts regarding ORCA lock vs Autolock? I like the concept of ORCA very much. I also understand the dangers (possibility of not locking).
Anybody using ORCA? Any good? Also, why is it a good practice to use regular screw gate for belaying and rappelling?
MikeMills
Joined Oct 12, 2016
10 points


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