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Speedy aid rig..... nirvana?
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Apr 4, 2010
The main advantage of the 1 jug 1 gri-gri system is for cleaning overhanging stuff or roofs. It lets you make lots of little lower-outs (think the roof leading up to the Salathe headwall) very efficiently. I too often use a Revolver as a pulley biner, especially when my arms are tired (which is most of the time).

For terrain that's vertical (or less than) the regular 2 jug system feels faster.

I'm one of the climbers in the above video. The main reason that we were using the 1 jug 1 gri-gri system is that we only had 4 jugs between the 3 of us.
Ian McEleney
From Mammoth Lakes, CA
Joined Nov 20, 2006
912 points
Apr 4, 2011
Andy Laakmann wrote:
So I was recently exposed to the following aid rig/movement pattern and tried it in the gym. This came from Hans Florine, so it is tested (at least on 3500 ft of C1 in 2 hours and 38 minutes!) Holy crap! It is fast, simple, and also has the bonus benefit of eliminating the "daisy fall". I'm posting it here to ask the peanut gallery two questions... 1) WTF am I missing... is this as good as it seems and 2) Why have I never read about this before? Requires: * Two ladders * One adjustable daisy * One quickdraw (or short loop, girth hitched) at the waist. Starting from the ground: * Place piece * Clip ladder to piece * Clip adjustable daisy to ladder * Climb up ladder until piece is at your waist (optionally tightening daisy if desire) * Clip quickdraw into piece, hang on that sucker * Top step as desired * Place high new piece * Clip other ladder to new piece * Clip adjustable daisy (now available, since you are hanging on the draw) to high ladder * Test piece as desired. If it blows, you won't lose the ladder since it is connected by the adjustable daisy. And odds are you are still clipped into the last piece with your waist quickdraw, so you aren't taking a fall. * Transition to new piece+ladder - unclipping your waist quickdraw if you haven't already. * Retrieve old ladder, clip rope in behind you (if you haven't already) * Continue So, WTF am I missing.... seems ideal? No daisy tangle, no daisy fall risk, FAST, stress free top stepping without the fifi, if piece blows you won't lose the ladders. Yes there is a chance you could drop a ladder - so just have a spare metolius pocket ladder on your harness.

I have been using the standard two aiders, two daisys and one fifi method that everyone seems to use and am now in search of something faster and safer (no potential daisy fall). So I got an adjustable daisy and tried your method. I did make one change though, instead of using a quickdraw, I just use a fifi as I find a quickdraw clipped to my belay loop is far too long, it’s too hard to top step and it’s too long to effectively extend my reach when not top stepping. I am interested in how you can effectively top step with a draw clipped to your belay loop, it seems way too long, almost double the length of what a preslung Black Diamond fifi comes in at. Am I missing something here?

Also I am contemplating if using two adjustable would be faster. Basically I would set it up like a normal two daisy, two aiders, one fifi aid configuration, but instead of having pocketed daisys, have adjustables. It seems as this may be advantageous over both of the two previously mentioned configurations as it would eliminate the extra steps of fifi'ing into your piece (or in your case, clipping a draw into the piece) as all you would need to do is snug up the adjustable to the length you need, and now you don’t need a fifi or quickdraw because the snugged up adjustable daisy is acting as one.

So it would go something like this:

-From ground, place piece.

-Clip left side adjustable daisy/ aider combo to piece (they are both on the same biner)

-Climb aider, tensioning adjustable as you go up.

(At this point you would normaly need to clip in with your fifi or draw but now you don’t have to as the tensioned daisy is taking its place)

-Top step if desired

-Place next piece

-Clip right side daisy/ aider combo to new piece

-Bounce test

(If the piece blows you don’t take a harsh daisy fall because the adjustable daisy connected to the lower piece that your standing on is snugged up enough to eliminate much of a fall)

-Transfer weight to new piece

-Unclip daisy/aider combo from lower piece

-Clip rope to lower piece

-Extend the daisy you just unclipped and attach it back to your harness

-Repeat steps

With the method you described, every aid cycle I had to add in the extra step of clipping into the piece with the fifi (or draw in your case), unclipping the adjustable, extending the adjustable, than clipping the adjustable to the new piece, which is pretty much the only difference between the method you explained and this one (that I can see anyway).

What do you think?
20 kN
From Hawaii
Joined Feb 2, 2009
1,378 points
Aug 19, 2013
Brian in SLC wrote:
On a traverse, I take the top jug off, pass the piece, then, hit the handle on the gri gri and lower out. Weight goes on top jug, unclip rope from piece, step up on gri gri, reach back and clean piece, voila.

yes, but this isn't deucying out.. the deucy method involves a longer traverse where you cant reach back to clean the piece/biner. but rather you pass a loop of rope through and lower yourself out, either by hand or with an ATC for long ones.

andy has it right:
Andy Laakmann wrote:
Is deucying out passing a bite through to lower out? If so, wouldn't you need to disconnect the grigri and reconnect it after passing the bite through? I've always had the bite be a loop that extends from my tie in? I'm probably missing something obvious.
Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Joined Dec 12, 2002
4,096 points
Aug 20, 2013

thats exactly what i do. it works great for me.
Joined May 13, 2013
41 points
Aug 20, 2013
Sorry if deviating from the flow of the thread, but in regards to the responses to the OP I agree to do away with the daisies. A partner showed me this and I feel like it cut down on a lot of time wasted unfucking things. The daisies, adjustable or not, seem to always get twisted around the lead line. I've never gone back to using them unless I think there's a chance the next piece will blow.

Two aiders, no daisies (unless concerned), long draw for fifi (use to rest only after a couple placements).
Nathan Scherneck
From Portland, OR
Joined Nov 15, 2009
2,403 points

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