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Better living through safer anchoring
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Aug 23, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: naw, dawg...
Hello MP,

Let me begin by saying that I'm somewhat new to this whole climbing thing (I think you call us "gumbos," but that seems derogatory, so please don't use that term) -- I just got my belay tag for TR at the gym earlier this afternoon -- but I have been doing a whole lot of thinking ever since I started reading on these extremely useful and always enlightening Mountain Projects Forums about how it is necessary to be as safe as possible.

I have already ordered a Metoleus Extra-Safe harness (the one with the two belay loops) and a chalk-bag (along with an extra strap just in case the first one breaks--it was only $12 from Prano).

For Belay devices, I went with a Pretzl GriGri 2 and I also ordered a hollow-block prussick cord from Starling to back it up with (a great idea I read about on these very forums!). The figure-8 belay looked easier to use but because it doesn't automatically catch the TR falls just by releasing the rope and device, I thought it wasn't worth the risk.


I havent really tried Tradding yet, but I think that I can use the crack at the Gym to work on using all those Camelots and Buddies that the good Tradders use. I want to be ready to head out and climb up the Dome in Yosemite by next summer, so I am shifting in to high gear as far as getting my climbing systems dialed in.

To this end, I read a whole lot about SERENE anchors here on the Mountain Projects. I still need to find a copy of the John Large books on anchors, but REI was out when I went in there (Regardless, the employee there was very helpful and knowledgeable and helped me pick out some great 7/16 static top-roping rope and a few of the Metoleus brand Camelots-- they will come in handy when I need to make anchors, he said). I understand that all components of the SERENE equation are equal, but some are more equal than others. It seems that "efficient" is the most equal part-- please don't bother correcting me if I am wrong on this.

It seems that there is a lot of discussion about how to make the best Tradding Anchor possible. Did I mention that I love on-line shopping? I have created a new (and I think ingenious) anchor system that I think will catch on with Tradders, old and noob alike (haha a climbing joke -- I bet there are some jokes about climbing gear that I will learn soon and never get tired of! LOL).

Please have a look at my anchor system and rate it. Please note that I don't actually own any of the gear that is illustrated in my anchor system, but I read all about it on the online gear websites and believe that these are the strongest components available that all have UAII type certification (which I understand is very important).

Rock Climbing Photo: Super Anchor
Super Anchor


Let me explain a few key features of this:

  • It is Strong - all of the components are rated with high numbers.
  • It has No Extension - the barrel knots will not go through the pulleys if the rope breaks.
  • It is Redundant - you can break any of the parts and it will still work, especially if you have two PAS systems locked to the Bear-Paw at the bottom, as I will most certainly have when I climb.
  • It is Efficient - it's already tied and ready to go! Just take it off your harness and clip it to your Camelots and you're ready to do a Trad belay.
  • It will Equalize - the pulleys will allow the anchor system to equalize almost perfectly. (I say "almost" because all the people who seem to know what they are talking about here on MountainProjects say that true equalization is not possible and even though I believe I know better than that, I will at least provide the illusion that I respect their opinions).
  • It has three parts. Everyone says three-part anchors are the best.

A few more notes:

  • Even though it is designed only for Ice Climbing, I will use the Grover brand two-gated carabiner to attach the double-pulley to the bear paw because the features won't allow it to rotate and opening it seems almost impossible.
  • I will use the DAMN brand super-safe locking revolving pulley carabiners for attaching to the loops on the Camelots for extra equalization.
  • I could have substituted two single pulleys for the red Petzl double-pulley but I thought that it would make it a bit too heavy.
  • I plan to use the #4 Camelots only, because it makes sense that a bigger Camelot is safer.
  • The orange Rock Erotica pulleys have a swivel on them for proper alignment.

Please let me know what you think!

Edit: Frank thanks for the words of encouragement. I will be trying that Honnald Dome, of course. He makes it look fun and pretty easy.
J Marsella
From Berthoud, CO
Joined Jul 3, 2010
1,906 points
Aug 23, 2016
I can see you've done your homework.

One question - which "Dome" in Yosemite? Puppy Dome? El Capitan Dome? Middle Cathedral Dome?
FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Joined Nov 19, 2009
284 points
Aug 23, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Rump roast II, pistol whipped, Indian Creek  Photo...
Bravo!

mountainhick
From Black Hawk, CO
Joined Mar 19, 2009
222 points
Aug 23, 2016
Bwahahaha! Embarrassed to say
Joined Jan 19, 2015
6 points
Aug 23, 2016
It is literally perfect.

I've never encountered a belay ledge you can't get three #4's into, so that is a wise choice.
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion
From Colorado
Joined Oct 29, 2012
43 points
Aug 23, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I thi...
That anchor is rediiculous, no screamers or other shock absorbing devices for all the falls you are going to take right after you leave the ledge. Rick Blair
From Denver
Joined Oct 16, 2007
376 points
Aug 23, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Russ Just off the block
Best thing I've seen on MP in the last few days, thank you! Danger-Russ Gordon
From Tempe, AZ
Joined Nov 30, 2011
423 points
Aug 23, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Triple Jeopardy starting from 1/3 of the way up.  ...
Great! Maybe the indoor trad learning dude can use it! Bill Czajkowski
From Albuquerque, NM
Joined Oct 6, 2008
42 points
Aug 23, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: First Belay Moonlight
The UL trigger kits have been having issues... I would recommend using the regular camelots as it may save you some pump not having to fix the triggers if you are trying to set this up at a hanging belay! Other then that I am running to REI now to pay full retail for all this stuff to build my own!! walmongr
From Gilbert AZ
Joined Aug 8, 2015
86 points
Aug 23, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: naw, dawg...
Rick, you are right. I had not thought of the shock-loading scenario. I appreciate your feedback. Here is an illustration that involves a Yurts Screamer. After reading about their fall KN ratings, I think that one screamer should work. My only concern is that it may introduce more extension into the Super Anchor System. In addition, the rope used for the anchor system will be dynamic rope, which is especially necessary when using the anchor for Tradding on TR with my static rope.

Rock Climbing Photo: With Screamer
With Screamer


Mr Monger, I have read about the trigger issue. I think that the weight savings of the ultralight Camelots vs the old Camelots is worth the risk. In any event, per a forum suggestion on the topic, I plan to use a small amount of epoxy to glue the trigger wires to the triggers.
J Marsella
From Berthoud, CO
Joined Jul 3, 2010
1,906 points
Aug 23, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: I'M THE F***ING KING OF INTERNET CLIMBING BRAJ
A f&cking screamer!!!

I'm seriously about to shet myself, eyes are watering
Burcheydawwwwwwg
Joined Jan 9, 2012
1,273 points
Aug 23, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: A grey fox skull wedged in a crack 100' up on a FA...
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:
I've never encountered a belay ledge you can't get three #4's into, so that is a wise choice.


A placement for a single Nalgene bottle with an equalized sling is way more common, Duh.

OP, is your super anchor Provisionally Patented??

edit: I rate your anchor system a 14 out of 10. Will you be my mentor??
Glenn Schuler
From Monument, Co.
Joined Jun 24, 2006
1,466 points
Aug 23, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: naw, dawg...
Glenn, I am not patenting the Super Anchor with Screamer at this time-- I just want to provide the safest anchor concept to all the Tradders out there who have (somehow) not died with their sub-par anchor systems.

Also, I would be happy to mentor you. I will contact you via Private Message after I have earned my Sport Leader belay tag, as that will prepare me for taking on a student. Hopefully my gym will soon invest in the Indoor-Tradding holds so that I can get a Trad Leader belay tag. At that time, I will be ready to guide my friends and students on Traditional rock climbs outdoors! Also I ordered some Fife.Tan guide tennies to boost my confidence!
J Marsella
From Berthoud, CO
Joined Jul 3, 2010
1,906 points
Aug 23, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Yes
Rock Climbing Photo: Mountain project gold 4 u
Mountain project gold 4 u
grog m aka Greg McKee
Joined Aug 29, 2012
115 points
Aug 23, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: A grey fox skull wedged in a crack 100' up on a FA...
J Marsella wrote:
I will contact you via Private Message after I have earned my Sport Leader belay tag


Awesome! I'll be here on my couch waiting! When my wife sees the PM she will dig me out from under the 5 ft. pile of empty PBR cans and I will be so ready to Tradd!!!!
Glenn Schuler
From Monument, Co.
Joined Jun 24, 2006
1,466 points
Aug 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Devils Tower
Best thread ever! J Hollada
From Atlanta, GA
Joined Jan 24, 2015
158 points
Aug 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Looking south from storen.
The acid that is doubtless all over that rope will definitely make you dead. Better back up the entire 'cord' with another even thicker one. Phil Lauffen
From The Bubble
Joined Jun 20, 2008
2,508 points
Aug 24, 2016
The only thing missing is an IndieGoGo flexible funding campaign to patent this setup and sell it as a ready made anchor! SwabianAmi
Joined Mar 27, 2015
1,594 points
Aug 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: On top of Hitchcock Pinnacle.
Please don't tell me that you are only clipping in to one bear paw. That's defeats the purpose of redundancy in the rest of your system. Please use two single ropes as well, just in case one breaks. Steven Groetken
From Durango, CO
Joined Sep 30, 2012
394 points
Aug 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: My first belay certification.
I don't understand the purpose of the DMM revolvers. You don't need the reduced friction at those points, and you're sacrificing the added strength you could get from steel carabiners. Dylan B.
Joined Mar 31, 2006
971 points
Aug 24, 2016
ONLY #4 Cam's? I think you better use these: valleygiant.com/no9cam.html

MUCH Stronger!
Brian L.
Joined Feb 19, 2016
81 points
Aug 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: I'M THE F***ING KING OF INTERNET CLIMBING BRAJ
"bearpaw" makes me laugh Burcheydawwwwwwg
Joined Jan 9, 2012
1,273 points
Aug 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Belaying 2nd (or was it 3rd? 4th?) on Turk's Head ...
That's taking "active protection" to a whole new level! Ted Pinson
From Chicago, IL
Joined Jul 11, 2014
178 points
Aug 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: naw, dawg...
Dylan, I thought about using these carabiners WALMART STEEL CARABINER but the DAMN brand revolving super safe locking carabiners were a bit cheaper and also I liked the green color more than the yellow zinc color. In addition, I wasn't going for friction reduction (though that is an excellent thing to think about in future upgrades to my Super Anchor System), but rather better equalization. Let me explain:

I have read that shifting even a millimeter or two in any direction (if you're dumb enough to still be using a normal anchor system) will make the equalization vanish. Using the revolving super safe locking carabiners will allow the Super Anchor System to travel from left to right a bit when the belayer moves from side to side, or if you get off-route too far when you are TR'ing.

Phil, let me pick apart your comment phrase by phrase:

Phil Lauffen wrote:
The acid that is doubtless all over that rope

There is no acid on my rope. I told you earlier that I have not even bought these components. But when I do, I trust that REI (or whichever Ukranian or Ebay rope seller I choose to buy from) will have been very careful and will only be selling me a newly manufactured rope that meets UAII certifications and is safe.

Phil Lauffen wrote:
will definitely make you dead

LOL but I think the joke usually goes "you will be doing the dying, gumbo" LOL

Phil Lauffen wrote:
Better back up the entire 'cord'

Again, did you not read the OP? The Super Anchor System is redundant because of the barrel knots. Also a second rope would make it too heavy.

Phil Lauffen wrote:
with another even thicker one.

Finally, some logic in your argument. I thought about this and did some research. I was actually quite amazed that the 11mm ropes that I considered using for my Anchor System were rated with the LESS number of KN than some of the thinner ones. Go figure!

Mr. Swami, I hope that my gym gets the Tradding holds. They have a crack but tell me that it must be used with a Top Rope, even if I get my Sport Leading Belay Tag. I really want to learn Tradding before I head out to climb up the Honnald Dome in Yosemite.

Steve, The bearpaw is redundant by my definition. Each hole is redundant to the other one. Please don't be ridiculous.

Thanks for everyone's interest! Keep the ideas coming so that I can make the Super Anchor System even better and safer!
J Marsella
From Berthoud, CO
Joined Jul 3, 2010
1,906 points
Aug 24, 2016
Glenn Schuler wrote:
A placement for a single Nalgene bottle with an equalized sling is way more common



It was BPH Lexan, much stronger than what you can get nowadays.
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion
From Colorado
Joined Oct 29, 2012
43 points
Aug 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Ah yes, the champagne of beers.
"Steve, The bearpaw is redundant by my definition. Each hole is redundant to the other one. Please don't be ridiculous."

First - don't tell anyone else how to argue or feel. I know other MP'ers feel the same (or at least one).

Second - I was skeptical at first, but I'm now convinced that with a complete redesign this could actually work. I will go and tinker in my garage for some time and come back with a new concept to present to the group!

And congrats on your TR belay certification!
marc co.
From SLC, UT
Joined Jun 15, 2010
65 points


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