Best way to tie two ropes together for rapping?

Hey all,

when i first started climbing i always used a double fisherman knot to tie my two ropes together but then later starting using the "euro death knot" to tie my ropes together.

while abroad i climbed with a few korean climbers who insisted that tying a figure eight follow through knot was the safest and least cumbersome of knots to use when tying two knots together.

What are your thoughts?

I use a figure 8 version of the Euro Death Knot. It still rolls out of the way of obstacles and seems a bit harder to get unlodged. I'm not sure why anyone would use a double fisherman's. It looks cool, maybe, but it's like climbing with hexes and EBs. Fig 8 follow through is very safe but bulky and can get hung up more easily than the death knot.

The flat overhand aka EDK is the knot of choice. Just make sure your tails are 12" mimimum. I go 18". If it seems too simple, or you're worried about the knot rolling(since you are cross-loading it) just tie an overhand in one tail as a blocking knot. In a place like Red Rock, where ropes snag on everything, this is very unobtrusive.

steve edwards wrote:I use a figure 8 version of the Euro Death Knot. It still rolls out of the way of obstacles and seems a bit harder to get unlodged. I'm not sure why anyone would use a double fisherman's. It looks cool, maybe, but it's like climbing with hexes and EBs. Fig 8 follow through is very safe but bulky and can get hung up more easily than the death knot.

oh boy....Steve, do a touch of reasearch on using the 8 version of the EDK....bad idea.
just use the EDK it is tested and approved by any real climber

Double fishermans

Oh boy, is it this thread again???

mountainproject.com/v/climb…

Steve Edwards, Go back to the overhand

The flat-overhand is clearly better than the flat-figure-eight. The flat-eight is represented three-to-one in the accidents despite (to the best of my knowledge) many more climbers using the overhand. The flat-eight also starts flipping at a lower load (750 lbs vs 1400 lbs for well-tied, 110 lbs vs 200 lbs for badly tied) than the overhand, and it eats two to three times as much tail in each flip.

I took that quote from here if you want to read more cremnomaniac.wordpress.com/…

Flat overhand

EDK. Period. Once while climbing in France, a partner tied an inline figure eight. I told him I wouldn't rappel on it, and tied an EDK. Tie a backup overhand if you're skittish.

Flat overhand, semicolon!

edk

Flat double fisherman, the way to go!

security of double fisherman + easy pull of edk = flat double fisherman

gudelius.de/spst.htm

Second knot pictured, the knot in the first picture is also cool, I don't know what it is called.

Phil Lauffen wrote:edk

I'll add the 20th vote for this -- especially when there is any risk of the rope getting stuck. I'll mention that a couple years back in the Bugs... I saw exclusive use of the overhand...

However... be sure everyone rappelling off the knot understands it's use, how to dress it, etc.

If you are interested, you can look at Tom Moyer's data for some interesting pull test data:

xmission.com/~tmoyer/testin…

steve edwards wrote:I use a figure 8 version of the Euro Death Knot. It still rolls out of the way of obstacles and seems a bit harder to get unlodged. I'm not sure why anyone would use a double fisherman's. It looks cool, maybe, but it's like climbing with hexes and EBs. Fig 8 follow through is very safe but bulky and can get hung up more easily than the death knot.

What Cota said, if I'm understanding what you've said (it's the one that should be termed 'death knot').

Rick Blair wrote:Flat double fisherman, the way to go! security of double fisherman + easy pull of edk = flat double fisherman gudelius.de/spst.htm Second knot pictured, the knot in the first picture is also cool, I don't know what it is called.

Nice looking knot Rick, thanks. The flat fisherman is talked about in the discussion on the website that Avery N just posted ( from Avery's post ...interesting pull test data: xmission.com/~tmoyer/testin… ). The xmission.com site did not test the flat fisherman other than noting that when it is under load, they did not observe it flipping at all.

Anybody else have anything to say about the flat double fisherman?

Figure Eights of any type have a tendency to "roll" over themselves and fail at surprisingly low loads when ring loaded. EDK all the way.

J. Albers wrote: Anybody else have anything to say about the flat double fisherman?

Sure, you're not going to fail a proper flat overhand on rappel, so why bother doing anything more.

EDK

Mark Nelson wrote: Sure, you're not going to fail a proper flat overhand on rappel, so why bother doing anything more.

Wow, so useful! Thanks.

steve edwards wrote:I use a figure 8 version of the Euro Death Knot.

God I hope you're joking.

To the OP, EDK is the way to go, 100%

Interesting. Thanks. Been using this for, hmm, 15 years at least. I do actually use the EDK on occasion too, with long tails, if the pull looks sketchy. Oddly enough, I also learned this knot in France, from a friend who was a guide, as an alternate "safer" version of the EDK (which I'd also learned in France years prior). Apparently safer in appearance only.

I guess y'all might have saved my life today, so thanks. Curious to read the science on this. I've never seen any slippage with this knot, nor had a rope stuck. Back in my Valley days (using double fish/fig 8 followthrough) we used to get ropes stuck all the time.

How does it stack up when using different diameter ropes (especially small tag lines)?