Belay Escape
|
How fast should I be able to perform a standard belay escape? |
|
Luke A Anderson wrote:How fast should I be able to perform a standard belay escape? Standard belay escape- Already anchored. Mule belay device; klemheist with cordelette; munter mule cordelette; release belay out of system; munter mule climbing line to anchor.My record is 1.2 seconds. Ooops, I guess that was just cutting the rope. I think the fact that you can do it (correctly, without having to stop and 'figure it out') is the most important part? |
|
Do you mean escaping from belaying some "friend" that intends to hang dog for hours on his proj? To escape that belay you start out the night before with things like "I think I have the flu." Otherwise, announce you have to go to the bathroom and circle around in a wide arc back to the car. |
|
Not that it's the final word, but I believe in AMGA exams the guides are expected to perform an escape in 5 minutes |
|
It probably depends on how fast you can do the second half of the self-rescue. If your leader takes a whipper and smacks their head and are upside down and unconscious you really only have a few minutes to reach them before they could suffocate. Escaping the belay is the easy part, ascending the weighted rope with a shoestring and garda is the crux(good reason to use the end of the rope instead of your prussic to anchor the leader). |
|
5min for a releasable belay escape is respectable. Under 3mins is fast. |
|
E thatcher wrote:Not that it's the final word, but I believe in AMGA exams the guides are expected to perform an escape in 5 minutesSeriously? 5 Minutes?! For a professional guide??? I haven't done a belay escape in at least 3 years and if it took me more than 3 minutes I'd be VERY surprised. Pretty darned sure my record is something like 1.5 minutes back when I used to measure such things. (heh!) ;^D |
|
Belay escape: |
|
E thatcher wrote:Not that it's the final word, but I believe in AMGA exams the guides are expected to perform an escape in 5 minutesThis is incorrect. Belay escapes are not timed as an individual skill in the AMGA Certified Rock Instructor / Guide Exams. If you've got the skill dialed, 1.5 minutes would be a reasonable time, though. |
|
Harness Hang Syndrome
Speed is important, but must be managed within the risk to the belayer and injured leader. Suffocation and restricted circulation due to body position are also factors that time is crucial for. |
|
I'm pretty sure there are a few other threads on RC.com besides this one... |
|
I agree that speed is less of a concern than perfoming this task safely. In a real world rescue situation you are likely to panic and make mistakes, its more important to have the skills to safely deal with the situation at hand and formulate a plan. A mastery of belay escapes, hauling systems, improvised ascent, rappelling with an unconscious person, and ability to transition from system to system based on what the situation dictates is really what you should be most concerned with. |
|
Geir Hundal wrote: This is incorrect. Belay escapes are not timed as an individual skill in the AMGA Certified Rock Instructor / Guide Exams. If you've got the skill dialed, 1.5 minutes would be a reasonable time, though.I actually just practiced this yesterday with a friend and AMGA guide. He said the scenario involved more then just a belay escape, but that if you took more then 5 minutes on that portion it was a fail. He said that most of the guides in the exam take around 3 minutes, but they're taking their time to make sure they don't mess anything up and fail. |
|
Also i think it depends on the scenario, in this scenario you are a leader belaying on a multi-pitch climb from the waist and through the anchor, to escape a belay from the ground and climb up to a leader is a totally different story. |
|
Buff Johnson wrote:HHS is not as relevant in climber harness situations. Think about that, you'd have wallers and hanging belayers kicking the bucket left & right on us.Most wallers and hanging belayer's are conscious and able to move around. Even small movements can allow blood to circulate. Whereas unconscious/immobile persons cannot move and prevent blood from reaching toxic levels in the circulation restricted areas. It will happen regardless of harness, including full body harnesses. Also, from the author you mentioned: SUSPENSION TOLERANCE IN MEN AND WOMEN WEARING SAFETY HARNESSES. N. Turner, D. Weaver, R. Whisler, J. Zwiener, NIOSH, Morgantown, WV. Workers wearing full-body safety harnesses are at risk for suspension trauma if they are not rescued in five to 30 minutes after a successfully arrested fall. Suspension trauma, which may be fatal, occurs when a persons legs are immobile in a vertical posture, leading to pooling of blood in the legs and the reduction of return blood flow to the heart. |
|
Back in the old days I used to test this while assessing on guides courses. If you couldn't do it under 5 minutes you failed client safety. Five minutes is plenty of time and you don't have to rush. |
|
Buff Johnson wrote:However, it is in recent findings that the seated position of the typical climber's harness that HHS does not lend itself to this type of trauma. The climber's harness in a seated position is not nearly as susceptible to othostatic trauma leading to shock as the full body harnesses are; regardless of ability to remain mobile (i.e. the seated tests were performed immobile).Can you please post the studies of the recent findings you mention? All of the studies I have seen state that it happens with all harnesses, and that full body harnesses could be worse. outdoorswa.org/files/Harnes… "Someone hanging immobile in a seat harness is a serious medical emergency that must be dealt with immediately." Just confused and would like to know. We certainly do agree that no one should needlessly jeopardize themselves by rushing to the rescue of their partner. |
|
5 minutes or less. Its important if the climber is out cold and is inverted. |