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Perfect Crimb Area
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Advanced Birding S 
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Demystification S 
Don't Mean Nothin' T 
Fallout, aka Perfect Sex S 
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Hateful Pleasures T,S 
Lacuna S 
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Perfect Crimb, The S 
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Advanced Birding 

YDS: 5.11d French: 7a Ewbanks: 24 UIAA: VIII ZA: 25 British: E5 6a

Type:  Sport, 1 pitch
Original:  YDS: 5.11+ French: 7a Ewbanks: 24 UIAA: VIII ZA: 24 British: E4 6a [details]
FA: Mike Dahlberg
Page Views: 4,004
Submitted By: Chris treggE on Jul 17, 2006

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (64)
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Kate Muehling on Advanced Birding. May '10.


Advanced Birding is a nice climb past 2 small roofs that is three climbs right of Perfect Crimb. It is a load of fun and on the easy side for the 'book grade' (12b) so lots of people use as it as their attempt at onsighting or flashing a 12. Ignoring the grade issue for a second, it is still a 4 star climb, up an easy face to crimps above the first roof, and then a big move to a hueco below the next roof, then a couple power pulls and you're through. As for the rating, I'm going to change it 11+ since that what is the group consensus is right now. If someone wants me to put 12b though just let me know, no big deal.

  • RCM&W #87, p. 131


Bolts. Please use your own gear for top rope. Please bring an extra biner and if the ones up top look bad or don't easily clip or shut, please replace it. It's good karma.

Photos of Advanced Birding Slideshow Add Photo
Rock Climbing Photo: Advanced Birding - crux. May, 2010.
Advanced Birding - crux. May, 2010.
Rock Climbing Photo: Nate Erickson at the finish of Advanced Birding. M...
Nate Erickson at the finish of Advanced Birding. M...
Rock Climbing Photo: Logan Smestad at the base of Advanced Birding.
BETA PHOTO: Logan Smestad at the base of Advanced Birding.

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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Mar 4, 2015
By Kris Gorny
Apr 30, 2007
rating: 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a

The 5.12b rating is either a mistake or a typo in the Farris's guidebook -- 5.11c feels more like it. This is definitely one of the best and most fun routes at Red Wing. Initial dirty ledges but excellent climbing through two large roofs higher up.
By ferrells
Oct 25, 2007
rating: 5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a

A great, non-painful route to do every time you're in the perfect crimb area, and the best roof route at the crag.
This route was a lot harder to on-sight six years ago when all the best holds weren't covered in chalk. About as hard as Work Ethic, Longing for Miss Adonis, or Kelly's Arete, and buckets of fun. It if ends up consensus 11c, I'll be a little surprised. Maybe climbers are just stronger on the steep than on the technical these days?
By Chris treggE
From: Madison, WI
Oct 26, 2007

Probably you are right about the steep versus the technical. I thought it was way easier than Kelly's Arete, and Miss Adonis is kind of a one move wonder so it's hard to compare. It's been a number of years since I did Work Ethic so it's probably not a fair comparison coming from me.
By Kris Gorny
Oct 30, 2007
rating: 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a

Guys, Advanced Birding seems to me a number grade easier than Perfect Sex, which is just to the left of it. In Farris's book they're both rated 12b. One of these ratings is off. Oh well, just numbers...

Awesome route nevertheless.
By Darin Limvere
Oct 30, 2007
rating: 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a

Perfect Sex is a pretty solid 12b for redwing. I'm terrible on steep stuff and Advance Birding didn't feel very 12 to me... I would agree with kris. One of my favorites on the dark side. It's wierd, because the top of the route is so good that you completely forget about the bottom when you're clipping the chains.
By Sean Foster
Jul 4, 2011
rating: 5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a

Just found my way to Advanced Birding this season. I'm a solid 11 climber and this climb is just a little out of my reach after a few tries. My take on the rating is that its a 12 for those that aren't 12 climbers yet and an 11 for those that are. I'm psyched to have it as a project this year and look forward to the day I feel like I can downgrade it! Not yet though... beautiful climb (once you're past the sandy start).
By Dreez
Sep 12, 2011

I think its harder than Chinese Freedom, so 12a
By Kris Gorny
Sep 12, 2011
rating: 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a

Et tu, Dreez, contra me? Dang :)
By Chris treggE
From: Madison, WI
Sep 12, 2011

Well, maybe Chinese Freedom is 11a. :)

Gorny I am with you on this one. Chinese Freedom took me 3 sessions back in the day, and in the same era of my life, Advanced Birding took 2 tries.

Whatever. All opinions are duly noted, and all are of equal value (ie. worthless).
By Kris Gorny
Sep 12, 2011
rating: 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a

Ha ha! This is fun. I hope this keeps going.

Well, if Cyclops can be 5.12a then, I guess, so can Advanced Birding. But that would bump Kelly's Arete and Perfect Sex to 5.12c neighborhood.
By Chris treggE
From: Madison, WI
Sep 12, 2011

Everyone knows Minnesota is soft Kris.

Plus, didn't I just say that your opinion is worthless? Read my comment above more carefully.
By Kris Gorny
Sep 12, 2011
rating: 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a

Oh, I know it is worthless. But worthless can still be fun. After all, climbers are "conquistadors of the useless", so when we don't have a conquista going, exchange of useless opinions is a viable option.

Come to remember, what bothered me about Advanced Birding was the Farris's rating of 5.12b, the same as for the neighboring Perfect Sex. 5.12a probably does not seem so out of place.
By A.J. Christnovich
From: La Crosse, WI
Nov 2, 2011
rating: 5.11d 7a 24 VIII 25 E5 6a

I would consider myself to be a 5.11 climber that can occasionally get a 5.12. I always try to climb this when I am in the area as well as Chinese freedom. I think these two climbs are at the same level of difficulty with different emphasized styles. No matter the ratings, jump on the thing and have a blast.
By Tony Litke
From: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Mar 4, 2015
rating: 5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c

Super fun and fluid! Lots of rest spots so that is helpful for sending when you've drained yourself on the winter wall.

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