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4x4s vs treadwall intervals

Original Post
Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974

I hate 4x4s but am scheduled to start these in a week or two.

Trying to figure out the fundamental differences between 2 minute intervals and 4x4s.

Assuming 4s are approximately 30 second long boulder problems, followed by 5-10 seconds of rest getting to the next problem, repeated 4 times, followed by 2-4 minutes rest.

So 30 seconds of climbing/very short rest x 4.

A two minute treadwall interval would be the same total climbing length, but no rest, so intensity must be lower.

Both will heavily stress the aerobic system, but 4s should work the glycolytic/lactic pathway more.

Lengthening the rest interval for 4s from two minutes to 4 would allow higher intensity but decrease the aerobic training. Kind of a judgment call which would most benefit an individual.

My local goal routes tend to be fairly short and to have short cruxes, so I think I'm stuck with 4x4s.
Might try to do a few intervals anyway, if recovery allows, as they are great for training continuous vs stop-and-go climbing.

Brendan N · · Salt Lake City, Utah · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 405

I think you are on the right track, switching between 4x4s and Intervals. For me, 4x4s have more varied movement, more powerful movement, and are more cruxy. Treadwall climbing tends to be more straightforward paddling on uniform holds. 4x4s train precision and mental fortitude during redlining while Treadwall intervals train mental fortitude to hang on past a bursting pump. Both of these skills are important, leaning more towards 4x4s for short, technical sprints like this and Treadwall work for long, uniform paddling like this.

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974

Kind of off topic, but you could argue that the best HB training for the Red would be sets of 60-120 7/3 repeaters.
IE 10-20 minutes on the board at a time.
Can't even imagine the suffering involved.

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125

Mark, I think a single round of 4 boulder problems in a row will take you to the chains on a lot of the local routes :)

But your remark about the red is precisely why I've never had the urge to frequent it. It may make you a great athlete, but not necessarily a good climber.

ZachS00 · · Denver, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 15

I now do both on power endurance days. One 4x4 on the 45 degree wall with 2 minute rests between each set of 4.

After a 20 minute rest, I do treadwall intervals. Four rotations on a less steep setting with much smaller holds, five minute rests between each.

I find that the combination works different muscles. My core/arms/back tend to fail on the 4x4s, and my forearms pump off on the treadwall.

Brendan N · · Salt Lake City, Utah · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 405

Continuing off topic, it would be a mistake to characterize the Red as strictly fitness paddling. There are incredible routes under 30 moves and hard boulder problems. The ability to experience the entirety of the area requires one to be an excellent climber.
Back on topic, it would be a mistake to only train what you plan to encounter. Increased, non-technical pump management will help more specific training. If you repeatedly fall off a weird move on a 4x4 you are losing fitness gains. The Treadwall (or foot-on campusing) allows you to build fitness that you can then transfer to harder 4x4s.

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

from an injury management perspective, i would prefer the treadwall. it is a lot easier to push yourself when you aren't worried about cratering from the top of a problem. this probably wouldn't be a big deal for somebody who is young, or not dealing with any sort of injury. however, having tweaked my back/knees/ankles/feet while bouldering at the gym, i don't really like the 4x4 idea at this stage.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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