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Anonymous
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Jan 11, 2018
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined unknown
· Points: 0
Nick Goldsmith wrote:pretty simple actually. If you chop someone elses route that is what your legacy will be regardless of your other climbing accomplishments. If you have not sent the route sans bolts you are an even bigger piece of shit..... I don't understand how you get caught chopping bolts... seems like you could easily go out and chop them when noone else was around and never get caught.
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Brendan Blanchard
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Jan 11, 2018
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Boulder, CO
· Joined Oct 2010
· Points: 590
ViperScale . wrote:I don't understand how you get caught chopping bolts... seems like you could easily go out and chop them when noone else was around and never get caught. I think the problem is most who do it are a little too "proud" of it and can't help bragging, so word gets out eventually. But seriously, if you're chopping without contacting the FA/bolter and furthermore, reaching out to the community, you're most likely in the wrong.
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Nick Goldsmith
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Jan 11, 2018
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Pomfret VT
· Joined Aug 2009
· Points: 440
yes that is often the method of choice. The people who put them in tend to spray the deed while the choppers often slither in on a rainy day repelling in to do their dirty deeds and then slinking off into the night kicking the occasional stray dog like a petty thief..
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Bryce Adamson
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Jan 11, 2018
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Burlington, CT
· Joined Apr 2015
· Points: 1,392
ViperScale . wrote:I don't understand how you get caught chopping bolts... seems like you could easily go out and chop them when noone else was around and never get caught. In the northeast we have security cameras for that sort of thing
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Paddy McIlvoy
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Jan 11, 2018
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Hailey, ID
· Joined May 2009
· Points: 20
Tradiban wrote:What are the rules? For example, can you chop bolts if you haven't sent yet but know the bolts are bogus? Asking for a friend :) If they're bolts Tradiban retro'd "from a stance", free reign and free beer from all. If they're any other bolts, you're probably just being a jerk.
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Marc801 C
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Jan 11, 2018
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Sandy, Utah
· Joined Feb 2014
· Points: 65
David Kerkeslager wrote:You have no moral grounds to impose your aesthetics on others, regardless of whether you've climbed it. I'm not sure what your basis for believing otherwise is. (Likewise, there's no moral grounds to say you shouldn't impose your aesthetics either. But there are cost and community considerations) Do you mean ethics?
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Anonymous
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Jan 11, 2018
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined unknown
· Points: 0
Bryce Adamson wrote:In the northeast we have security cameras for that sort of thing In the southeast we cut extra bolts to make a route safer even if the FA who originally bolted it adds them.
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Wiled Horse
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Jan 11, 2018
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Dec 2002
· Points: 3,669
If you chop them and no one is there to hear do they make a sound
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Nick Goldsmith
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Jan 11, 2018
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Pomfret VT
· Joined Aug 2009
· Points: 440
the FA can do whatever he or she wants with their route. lot of aholes in the south.... must be a red state thing.....
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John Barritt
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Jan 11, 2018
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The 405
· Joined Oct 2016
· Points: 1,083
Marc801 C wrote:Do you mean ethics? No, aesthetics. Like when you go to the dentist and they give you the gas. You have NO RIGHT to put people to sleep without their consent.... ;) Or chop their bolts without numbing them first, THAT would be un-ethnical...... ;)
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Tony L
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Jan 11, 2018
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San Carlos
· Joined Oct 2011
· Points: 832
Someone else altered then climbed a route that you can't do, so you want hack the bolts off? A+++ Troll
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Nick Goldsmith
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Jan 11, 2018
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Pomfret VT
· Joined Aug 2009
· Points: 440
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Maxime Jacques
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Jan 11, 2018
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Sudbury, ON
· Joined Jul 2016
· Points: 3
Climb it on gear, don't spray about it, and leave it alone.
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Healyje
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Jan 11, 2018
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PDX
· Joined Jan 2006
· Points: 422
Be sure to sign up for Route Restoration Clinic! Topics include: - Keynote Address: "Live and Let Bolt?"
- Bolt Chopping: Crow or breaker bars?
- Bolt Hole Repair: Which expoxy fits your style?
- Paint Removal: Latest techniques and technologies (presented by a co-lead of the Sistine Chapel rennovation team).
- Chopping Ethics - Session A: A review of state by state removal notification laws.
- Chopping Ethics - Session B: Should you wait for the FA to finish and get off the route before starting to chop from the bottom?
- Chopping Ethics - Session C: Bolted cracks and preventing violence at crags.
- Chopping Ethics - Session D: Are there any crags protected from bolting by the community without intervention by a private land owner or regulatory action by public land managers?
- Chopping Ethics - Session E: Dishman, a case study in successful dispute resolution.
- Chopping Ethics - Session F: Infinite Bliss, a case study in necessary arbitration or collective paralysis?
- Chopping Ethics - Session G: Chopping, an individual or community responsibility?
- Chopping Ethics - Session H: Chopping, Elitism or crowd control?
- Chopping Ethics - Session I: Ken Nichols - Profiles in courage or savagely misguided atrocities?
We'll be holding this clinic at Owen River Gorge due to the abundance of bolted cracks - look for a clinic at your crag soon.
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Tradiban
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Jan 11, 2018
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2004
· Points: 11,610
Imagine for a moment that everyone is in agreement that the bolts need to be chopped but the only one with the crowbar can't send the route. Is the chopping to make a point or is it to restore the route to former glory? In the former and non-sender would be justified in chopping but in the latter certainly not. Discuss the motivation for chopping please.
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Tradiban
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Jan 11, 2018
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2004
· Points: 11,610
George Perkins wrote:Nick Rhoads: Stop. Is this really what you're doing with your life? No, just my spare time while on the shitter :) Based on page count of several of my threads useless negatively is what the people crave. Don't like it? Don't read it.
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Max Supertramp
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Jan 11, 2018
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Mar 2008
· Points: 95
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Aleks Zebastian
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Jan 11, 2018
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Boulder, CO
· Joined Jul 2014
· Points: 175
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Trad Princess
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Jan 11, 2018
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Not That Into Climbing
· Joined Jan 2012
· Points: 1,175
Oh man the iRL name reveal - classic move
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Tradiban
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Jan 11, 2018
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2004
· Points: 11,610
George Perkins wrote:Hey, keep on shitting if that's your thing. C'mon George. Stretch your mind a bit and just think about these ideas. Sometimes we have to bring up scary concepts in stupid ways to get the dialog going. Some people get entertainment here, some get useless negativity, some get a new perspective, some get new ideas, but whatever you get is up to you. If you wanna hate it, do it, it doesn't effect me and I don't care what you think about it. Remember, I just some asshole on the internet.
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