Climbing/Life Balance (Married, Kids, Life...) WHATS THE SECRET!?

Russ Keane wrote:

"raising kids continues the species."

The species is just fine.  Having kids is a selfish act, probably more so than climbing.   

The species IS fine, in fact we need less people not more (let the honor killing begin!) but if a person already has kids then the parent's action should now be for the kids not the parent themselves.

If the OP was asking if to have kids or not in the first place, then I would say tie the tubes now but he already stumbled into this mess so what's done is done. If only he came to the MP self help forums sooner!!!!

As for the selfish part I would say that having kids is a more enriching experience than any climbing that can be done. I'd rather be stopping myself from slapping the shit out of tantruming 5 year old than running it out over micro cams any day. If you think about it, the problems of a 5 year old are incredibly hilarious and give a great perspective on adulthood. Embellish it.

Tough one man... just had my first little one last year and it has been rough time from both the climbing and marrage perspective. I agree with all the commentors that communication, managing expections and negotiation is key. 

I hate to say it, but the reality is that you are not going to be able to climb as much as you did period. That doesnt mean u are not going to climb, but u need to lower your expectations significantly. As soon as u come to grips with that u will be able to get over the anger and actually focus on finding solutions. 

Solution-wise, what helped me was refocusing on training goals in gym or on hangboard or strength (ie weighted pull up or levers) that i could complete at home in very early am or late at night knowing that even though it was not climbing... it was taking me closer to my goal (im boulderer so easier). Then since i was spending more time at home, using that as a negotiating chip to arrange a one or two days out a month or a longer week long trip a few times a year. If u can some how build a home woodie or moon board in addition that is even more ideal. So aiming for quality outdoor climbing vs quanity.

What it all comes down to is access... climbing isnt like going to gym and lifting weights for an hour. It is at least 2 hours, even in the gym. Finding ways to make it faster and more efficient or not clash with “family hours” is key for making it work for me. Training when family is asleep and banking all that family time for less frequent high quality day trips or longer trips. It requires a lot of compromise and sacrafice as training at 5am or at 9pm after working all day sucks. The pressure of making sure i am in peak climbing shape for those trips, only climbing during best conditions (spring/fall), dealing with weather windows and eating planned weekends, to give the best trys to my projects is stressful. Also for me closest crag is 3 hours so any trip is at least a day trip (yes i do 6 hour round trip day trips so i can climb saturday and be home with family on sunday). But it is what i have to do to make it work. 

Look I do not have all the answers and i am also still in the thick of it (son just turned 2). This is how i get by... What i do know is that climbing is not an option and losing my family is also not an option. 

As long as i am being a good partner and doing my share... wife is open to letting me do what i have to do. I got in trouble when i would work 9-6, train 6-8, 3x a week, and then ask to go climbing on the weekend. Raising a kid is non-stop 24/7 all encompassing hard work with no off button so understanding that (esp if partner is stay at home parent) helps keep things in perspective. Doesnt get rid of feelings of frustration but helps understand. For older kids... i have a lot of friends who have gotten their kids into climbing and that has been very successful as then climbing becomes family time which i think is ideal situation for climbing parents. 

 That said, the struggle is real and right now... having trouble just gettingg through this post (sry for typos) with little one screaming lol. So head up, focus on being a good parent/partner first, commit to doing what u have to do for ur personal goals after and then after it... not easy but can be done. The rocks will always be there... time with ur kids or wife might not. 

Good luck!

Tradiban wrote:

You need to sit down with the wife and make a deal, negotiate. I would think that one 2hr session in the gym a week plus one weekend day outside a month would be a reasonable schedule? 

That doesn't sound like much climbing to me! Not enough for me, personally, to get my fix. 

After reading other forms of compromise and advice, maybe I do have a pretty good balance after all. Here's what works, just for me, I realize everybody's different. I usually take a day or 2 to climb per week. I'm self employed so I have that flexibility.  Usually I have time constraints... have to pick up kid by 5 from after school program. Get a baby sitter one night per week.During summer this date night can include a hike or bike ride. If you have family nearby, have the grandparents watch the kids for a day do you can do something with your wife. Taking time to be with wife without kids is important, I think. As your kids get older, they will be able to do more fun things with you. Including climbing gym. Also, in a couple years, your older kid can stay home and watch the younger one, while you go for a quick run or hike with your wife. Then, having completed family time, you can go climb. Give your wife time to herself to do whatever she does and is important to her, but you want no part of, and you should be fine. ... except maybe you won't, because your wife might get jealous that you are spending so much time and energy on something that doesn't include her, and doing it with your climbing partner. I don't know how to get around that. But if your climbing partner happens to be an attractive member of the opposite sex, it wont help your cause any. 

Also, to clarify, it is absolutely possible to have a failed marriage but still be a great parent. And be obsessed with climbing and still be a great parent. Feeling trapped and miserable and stifled doesn't make for good parenting. Being a happy, fulfilled person shows a kid what they should be looking for in life, not shuffling through the mundane, repetitive life of parenting/ family life without any room for self expression or personal growth. 

Anthony Lubetski wrote:

Are you trolling? Because if so, well done. 

Nope, 100% true though maybe with a little personal bias.

 I don’t have any kids so can’t give you any good advice about what to do there. I did wanna talk about something I do know something about, small business. You said you have a small business and commute to that business. That right there can leave you with no spare time. Add a wife and two kids I could see where there’s no way you’re spending Saturday or Sunday climbing.

 When I started my first company I worked, lifted 3 times/week and slept. Sunday was the only day I had free for the first year and half. Guess who I spent that with? I found climbing when my business was running like a clock. I paid people to cover for me while I went on trips. Any way you could pay an employee to do your job while you get out and climb mid week? That’s like the best thing about owning a business! Bunch of guys would get together on Fridays. We would call it FOF (wild guess as to what the letters mean) so no one knew what we were up to.

 Good luck balancing everything. I’m genuinely blown away when I see friends that are happy and who make family life work.

Russ Keane wrote:

"raising kids continues the species."

The species is just fine.  Having kids is a selfish act, probably more so than climbing.   

Yeah, but he already had them, so this is irrelevant. The point is that his kids are more important than sending 5.12d.

Bill Kirby wrote:

Any way you could pay an employee to do your job while you get out and climb mid week? 

On a related point...I found that I could get a lot more climbing in once I realized that instead of doing everything around the house myself, I could just pay someone to change the brake rotors, replace the broken toilet, clean the gutters, etc.!

You can't turn back time to fix past regrets.  The rock will always be there, but your loved ones may not.  Spend as much time with your loved ones as you can.  They will soon be older as time marches on.

I started climbing in the 70's.  Left climbing behind for my family and responsibilities.  At 49, I returned to climbing with no guilt.  Would not have it any other way.  At 64, I still have my wife, 5 kids and 5 grandkids.  I can climb when I want now with the blessings of my whole family.  No matter how many times I encouraged my family to climb, I am the only one with the bug.

lewchoo wrote:

That said, I was (and am) a junkie and need my fix...

Climbing is addictive. It's fun to do, it makes us feel good, we do it for ourselves and not for anyone else. In fact, climbing is very similar to something like alcohol. So if you replace "climbing" in your OP with "alcohol", and all of a sudden it seems ridiculous that you're asking advice on how you can drink more.

You started climbing after you got married. I started climbing ten years before I was married. Believe me, you were never climbing more than I was. I quit my job for climbing, I went dirtbagging, I spent six years overseas. Now I'm married, I have two kids, and I have a full-time job. And I still enjoy climbing. The key, just like drinking, is moderation. You just can't expect yourself to be able to go out climbing on a moment's notice, or constantly go on road trips. You need to find a balance that works for you and your family. If you want to climb all the time like your single friends, then the only way is to make yourself single again. Like alcohol, climbing can destroy your family and your life if you let it. You have to control it, not let it control you.

Russ Keane wrote:

"raising kids continues the species."

The species is just fine.  Having kids is a selfish act, probably more so than climbing.   

Probably calls his dog his fur baby.

I'm not going to go into existential philosophy over this, however, hahaha. 

As stated, the kids are here. The marriage is here. 

For me, it's just a day-to-day negotiation and finding ways to stay fit and climb as I have time. I pounce on a one hour run I can do right now or play on playground equipment with my son and call that part of a climbing workout. I've maintained my mediocre climbing level and even consolidated my base level a bit.

Part of it is, yes, my partner knowing that exercise and time in nature is important to my psychological and physical well being. But, full disclosure, my work situation is such that I have time off in the middle of the week while she is working and the kids are in day care. I hardly ever do anything other than a run and other sorts of compact workouts on the weekends.

Honestly, a society that expects you to slave away your health and time just to stay afloat is a bigger drain than wife and kids. We're expected to keep on pumping it to the finish line until we're a depleted and unhealthy bag of shit. Then, and only then, can we take a breather.

Do you get a lunch beak at work? How close are you to the climbing gym? How can you rearrange your schedule to make more climbing time and take away less family time and responsibility? If you take something (time for climbing) she is going to want something in return that makes her life better and more enjoyable. Get groceries for her. Run laundry for her. Do dishes. 

Getting the kids into climbing at least at the gym would be a really sneaky win-win. Then if the wife didn't follow suit I'd be really surprised. 

For sure see a counselor in order to work it out. Everyone wins if you guys work it out. Lots of people suffer if you don't work it out (divorce or not!)

Guys (generally): if you aren't already married or in a relationship please, please, please work this out ahead of time. There are women out there who will climb with you and raise a family around that life. If your lady love doesn't climb with you now, she won't in the future. And she's going to want kids. 

Lauren D. Hollingsworth wrote:

Do you get a lunch beak at work? How close are you to the climbing gym? How can you rearrange your schedule to make more climbing time and take away less family time and responsibility? If you take something (time for climbing) she is going to want something in return that makes her life better and more enjoyable. Get groceries for her. Run laundry for her. Do dishes. 

Getting the kids into climbing at least at the gym would be a really sneaky win-win. Then if the wife didn't follow suit I'd be really surprised. 

For sure see a counselor in order to work it out. Everyone wins if you guys work it out. Lots of people suffer if you don't work it out (divorce or not!)

Guys (generally): if you aren't already married or in a relationship please, please, please work this out ahead of time. There are women out there who will climb with you and raise a family around that life. If your lady love doesn't climb with you now, she won't in the future. And she's going to want kids. 

I agree that you should discuss these things before committing, if possible - but people change, you may discover a new passion (climbing or otherwise) after you're married, or decide that having kids is more important to you than you previously thought. You can't plan for every situation you'll encounter throughout your marriage, you need to be able to work things out as they arise. 

Also, neither of these bolded statements are universally true, every person is different. 

I've had a business.  How much time does your business take?  Are you making money?  Are you and your wife and kids comfortable?

Is there any alternate career path where you have less responsibilities / more time / more stable cash flow / happier life?

How much time does your wife have to do things other than shepherd the children around?  Does she get some physical activity?  Some friend time?

After you've worked out what the needs are, then sit down and figure out if you really have time to climb.  And then negotiate.

Get a counselor if you get stuck on any of the above.

Russ Keane wrote:

"raising kids continues the species."

The species is just fine.  Having kids is a selfish act, probably more so than climbing.   

Only someone without kids could possibly say that.  Being a good parent is the complete opposite of being selfish.  The clueless shouldn’t judge.

Thanks everyone for the input...all in line with what I have been thinking and doing, to varying levels of success.  Yes, kids are certainly primed...in fact my son wants his 6th birthday party at the climbing gym.  Looking forward to adventures with them for sure.  As I was reading through this feedback, I started to also realize that I have these feelings every winter...probably because skiing (my #2 ridiculous passion) overlaps with ice climbing and that all overlaps with the holiday stress and post-holiday stress and all the other stresses and throws everything out of whack.  The ironic part of this whole thing is (as someone said above) I actually want to climb less now than the past 15 years...partly because i am just out less, and not as strong, but also because i find incredible joy in just being with my family going ice skating or playing Uno.  

But that thing...that nagging pull of being just scared enough, just cold enough, just lost enough...its really really powerful.  And some people get it and some don't.  

Eric L wrote:

Only someone without kids could possibly say that.  Being a good parent is the complete opposite of being selfish.  The clueless shouldn’t judge.

but it makes you feel good, doesn't it? 

People face this issue in any activity that inspires passion this much passion and dedication. For example, if you wanted to compete seriously as a West Coast swing dancer, you'd be training multiple times a week, often with someone other than your SO/spouse (which in an utterly predictable manner regularly leads to loss of SO/spouse). Time is a limited resource, so you will have to prioritize and compromise just like everyone else.

You've been given the gift of a warning shot instead of being served divorce papers out of the blue. It sounds like your wife wants to preserve your relationship but may choose not if you continue to act in a way that makes her feel a if you see your family as less important than your family. If you too would like to preserve the relationship, you will likely find that you will need to lower your priority level on climbing (edit: especially since you say you have other hobbies).

Tradgic Yogurt wrote:You've been given the gift of a warning shot instead of being served divorce papers out of the blue.

The issue sounded to me more like it’s in the normal communications channel than SOS warning level stuff. The guy wasn’t saying “save my marriage!” he sounds like he’s asking for some tips, trinkets, ideas for how to stay tapped into “it”.

For more observations on making what I do have work, a lot of it’s making use of closer resources. To avoid spousal ire and curry favor for when I do want to do something bigger, I’ll do shorter days where I can still manage to pick the kids up from daycare and do the nightly routine. Less drive time helps the cause.

While I get some full day trips in, it’s not the given it once was. And the overnighter or weekender type situation is a rarity.

OP saying skiing is the other huge passion does ring alarm bells. My dad was the consummate jack of all trades. You would not really believe the breadth of his hobbies. From that, seeing how he often wasn’t there when I wanted him, I decided to pare down. For instance, I love mountain biking but now that a great ride is further (much) than 10 minutes from my door, I go about twice a year now. I just can’t afford to have two commute heavy hobbies. Maybe if the seasons didn’t intersect so much it would work out better, but I think maintaining the same interest level in both would cause a lot of problems.

Kids just make it different, but I don’t think it has to be the end of your passion. Like I said, I’m still trucking at the same level. Yeah, if my level were higher to begin with, it might be a different, but the end does not have to be nigh.

"Being a good parent is the complete opposite of being selfish."

True.  I said having kids is a selfish act, not taking care of them.  Obviously a little baby needs your help.  It's a lot of work.   I wonder if all the people with children  really asked themselves why they did it.  Are people being honest with themselves?  It's entirely self-serving.  Parents try to make out like martyrs, but in the end they did it for their own reasons about what THEIR life should look like, what THEY want as they grow older, etc etc.