Is a cheap and large diameter rope really the best for beginners?

I’ve been reading for the past week or two about ropes trying to figure out which one to buy to start off with for outdoor lead climbing. The general consensus seems to be buy a cheap and durable rope, with cheap meaning non-dry and durable often meaning large diameter. While this advice seems to make common sense, it seems like in real world practice, it doesn’t quite hold up from what I can tell.

From what I’ve read, most people recommend retiring your rope for a number of reasons (number / severity of falls, defect in the rope, etc) but the most common is that the sheath has started to wear (as indicated by fuzziness). Looking at Mammut ropes, which does a great job publishing data on their various lines, indicates that their 10.0mm Galaxy, a very robust rope by most accounts, has a 36% sheath ratio for 3.6mm of sheath, while their 9.5mm Infinity, a less durable rope to most people, has a 40% ratio for 3.8mm of sheath. Going down 0.5mm in rope size to what most people would consider a much less durable rope looks like you increase the sheath thickness by 0.2mm which would by all reason make the rope more “durable.” Despite the weight savings of 9g/m, you also only lose 2 UIAA falls by going down 0.5mm in width, which most people are unlikely to reach before retiring the rope for another reason. It would also stand to argue (although I have no data for this) that the thinner the rope, the more “premium” the product, and the higher quality materials are used on the sheath, meaning that not only would the Infinity have more sheath, but it would be more tightly wound with higher quality yarn, making it less likely to catch and wear.

Thickness aside, people also often recommend to start out with a cheap rope, meaning a non-dry. Despite this recommendation, most reports I’ve come across online seem to suggest that adding a Dry coating to just the sheath alone not only reduces the amount of dirt that gets trapped by the rope (decreasing wear), but also decreases wear of the sheath by friction (makes it more slick and less likely to catch perhaps), causing the life to increase by double in some cases. Again, using Mammut, adding a Dry treatment to just the sheath, increases cost by about 35%, though could possibly increase life by a factor of 2, meaning you’d be spending $65 / year over 3 years for a Dry, and $100 per year for 1.5 years if lifespan is doubled (the old adage, buy once, cry once comes to mind).

Which brings me back to my original question, why cheap and large diameter? It appears diameter alone doesn’t really have an impact on how durable a rope is, and spending less on a rope can be more costly in the long run. Would it then make more sense given this to buy something like a 9.5mm Infinity over a 10.0mm Galaxy, or would most people still recommend the Galaxy rope? Would love to hear some discussion on this.

If this post is because you are thinking of buying your first rope, you are overanalyzing it. It's called "analysis paralysis." You can get overwhelmed with specs, ratings, dry vs. non-dry, etc.

"Cheap and thick" is a good way to go for your first rope. Pull the trigger and buy a cheap climbing rope.

Cameron Habib wrote:

10.0mm Galaxy, a very robust rope by most accounts, has a 36% sheath ratio for 3.6mm of sheath, while their 9.5mm Infinity, a less durable rope to most people, has a 40% ratio for 3.8mm of sheath. 

10mm is the rope diameter, 36% would be the cross-sectional area (or maybe mass). 36% cross-sectional area of 10mm diameter is about the same as 40% of 9.5mm diameter. 

Would it then make more sense given this to buy something like a 9.5mm Infinity over a 10.0mm Galaxy, or would most people still recommend the Galaxy rope? 

If they are the same price, maybe not, but the infinity is generally more expensive.

This is just my opinion: If you plan to do mostly lead climbing then buy a rope in the 9.5-9.8 mm range. For primarily top roping, anything in the 9.8-10.2 is pretty good (thicker ropes usually stretch a little less, so that's another reason you want something thick when top roping). You found one exception where a thinner rope had a thicker sheath... oh well, the general advice of thicker ropes for beginners is just so they get something burly that will last. You are definitely over-analyzing this; most climbers just pick a thickness range and buy what's on sale. 9.8mm has been my go-to thickness for an all around beater rope for a while now.

I would prioritize getting a good deal over worrying about a particular diameter.  Depending on what belay device you use, you might get better use out of a slightly thinner rope (9.8 is perfect for Grigris), but thicker ropes are usually better at resisting rock abrasion, which is a big concern on low angle routes typically done by newer climbers, especially when toproping.  I would try to take a long, hard look at what you will most likely be using the rope for.  Overhanging sport?  Smaller diameter should be fine (no smaller than 9.4, though).

Cameron, you're definitely overthinking this. When people say "cheap and thick" what we're really saying is don't geek out thinking that you need to buy a fancy, expensive, high-performance rope because all that shit isn't going to do you a bit of good at your level in the sport. Currently you can find a huge number of good ropes between 9.5 and 10mm for less than $140 online. I'm a big fan of the Mammut Infinity and the Mammut Eternity, in fact. Just buy a rope and move on. They're consumbables. 

Echoing the "you're waaay overthinking it" comments...Go fondle a couple ropes at your local gear shop and buy the cheapest one that you like the feel of. You'll end up with a quiver of ropes eventually anyway.

"They're consumables." ~AndrewArroz

A beginner has a better chance of holding falls with a thicker rope.

Agree with previous comments from experienced climbers regarding overanalysis.  We're fortunate to have so many rope choices, but sometimes it can make things overwhelming.  Don't be surprised if that first rope does not last as long as you might expect.  As you become a more experienced climber, rope wear & tear should decrease and you will figure out what works best for you.  Recently saw a newbie outdoor climber with an expensive brand new 9.5 mm coated rope that was very abraded after first day causing significant anguish.  Just plan on that first rope being a learning experience for you.  Also having a thicker uncoated rope can make handling more certain, (less slippery), when starting out, especially when rapping and pulling.  Good luck!

Until you've had the experience to know what you do and don't like about different ropes, there is no point spending extra moolah on the fancy bells and whistles. Start generic (thick and cheap), use the shitpiss outta it so you really drive home the point that carrying around a 10.2mmx70m on approaches is way lame and those Infinitys just feed sooo much more smoooothe. You'll also figure out by then if bi-pattern is for you or if the good ol' sharpie is fine and you'll prolly realize that drytreated ropes are pretty pointless in the desert. But most importantly you'll start to see how one must manage the gear budget. Skipping the bi-pattern might get you two new cams...

Mike McKinnon wrote:

I buy the cheapest rope I can find under 10mm these days. Since I am not a beginner I want something a little lighter. 

For a beginner, I would say buy the cheapest rope between 10 - 10.5 if you are going to top rope with it and generally beat it up.

You will go through hundreds of ropes in your climbing career. You can always find a rope on sale somewhere on the interwebz

climbing friend,

hundreds of ropes? How many ropes do you utilize each year passing and how long do you expect on your life expectancy? 

I perhaps may utilize only 40-50 ropes during my lifetime, if even that! And I am hucking my considerable meat through time and space several hundred times on each rope! HYAH!

Buy a 70m 9.8 or 10mm rope, as cheap as the dirt

Aleks Zebastian wrote:

climbing friend,

hundreds of ropes? How many ropes do you utilize each year passing and how long do you expect on your life expectancy? 

I perhaps may utilize only 40-50 ropes during my lifetime, if even that! And I am hucking my considerable meat through time and space several hundred times on each rope! HYAH!

Buy a 70m 9.8 or 10mm rope, as cheap as the dirt

But Aleks, how do you fall if your forearms are always refreshed through the crux?

kck wrote:

But Aleks, how do you fall if your forearms are always refreshed through the crux?

climbing friend,

I do not always flash, but when I do, it's at least 5.13.

That BOA 

DON'T BUY A DRY TREATED ROPE  UNLESS YOU ARE ICE CLIMBING. I work in a gear shop and the amount of beginners who believe that dry treatments make your rope more durable is utterly horrifying. The dry treatment on a rope will last between 2-6 weeks rock climbing, it literally does nothing after that, not worth the $50 premium. Now that I got that out of the way, buy a cheapish rope in  the 9.5-10mm range and beat the living piss out of it, you'll get a frame of reference for what you like and dont like in a rope. Much like shoes, beginners don't need premium ropes.

reboot wrote:

...36% would be the cross-sectional area (or maybe mass). 

No, it’s a ratio.

FrankPS wrote:

If this post is because you are thinking of buying your first rope, you are overanalyzing it. It's called "analysis paralysis." You can get overwhelmed with specs, ratings, dry vs. non-dry, etc.

"Cheap and thick" is a good way to go for your first rope. Pull the trigger and buy a cheap climbing rope.

"Cheap and thick" is also the title on my Tinder profile.

Kevin Mcbride wrote:

DON'T BUY A DRY TREATED ROPE  UNLESS YOU ARE ICE CLIMBING. I work in a gear shop and the amount of beginners who believe that dry treatments make your rope more durable is utterly horrifying. The dry treatment on a rope will last between 2-6 weeks rock climbing, it literally does nothing after that, not worth the $50 premium. Now that I got that out of the way, buy a cheapish rope in  the 9.5-10mm range and beat the living piss out of it, you'll get a frame of reference for what you like and dont like in a rope. Much like shoes, beginners don't need premium ropes.

I’m not currently in the market for a new rope but the other day I was looking around at what’s out there now. I was very surprised to see that your options for a cheap 70m non dry are very limited. Looks like every company makes multiple ropes all with varying degrees of dry treatment. Obviously the marketing of a dry treated rope sounds better and the company makes more money. I don’t think you can even buy a non dry at your local big corporate stores. Must be ordered online. Careful what you say, they’re listening. 

How much do you weigh?  Bigger climbers should climb on thicker ropes.  

Your logic assumes a slow, continuous rate of wear to the hypothetical rope. For a beginner with a first rope, that will not be the case. You will probably kill that rope before it's time for one reason or another. That's why uiaa falls, dry/non-dry, etc. considerations are irrelevant at a beginning stage. 

In a sense, your first rope is a bit like a first romantic relationship... You probably think it's neat, and maybe even somewhat pretty. You think you know what you're doing, but the reality is that you have a vague idea at best. Before you know it, you've made one small mistake too many and what you once thought was oh so pretty, is now a fuzzy unrecognizable mess. You later realize you didn't even like that rope much anyway. Now you can take those invaluable lessons of the first and use that knowledge to find what fits you better.