Flash or Onsight? What are the unspoken rules!

How does reincarnation play into all of this?  Asking for a friend...

Hamish Malin wrote:

How does reincarnation play into all of this?  Asking for a friend...

That could be called a Flashback ?

Only the younger climbers of today really care about the cute little terms pinned to their ascent of a climb, The older generations don’t really give a crap and are just mostly happy to have completed a climb at all.

Jake Jones wrote:

Be honest.  Did you make that up?  No one else has ever heard of it and the consensus is that pretty much it's not a thing.

I don't even use flash... i think it is retarded but I hear people use day flash all the time as well so. To me you either onsight it or don't there is nothing else but just bringing up other things I hear alot. Also think it is funny how a troll who post a question than thinks he knows everything about the question he asked.

Mr. Hopes4Beard wrote:

Just sayin'... a Flash is a one chance opportunity to send the problem/route first go in your LIFE with any provided beta or touching of holds.
If you do it first go of the day after having a full session that problem/route in the past, all you did was do it first go of the day.

I know of no official source for this, but I've heard it's okay to have touched holds, but not to have placed bodyweight (or a substantial portion there-of) on holds prior to flashing. For instance, loosely feeling out the holds on a short boulder or traverse before getting on it. (As for ALL things in climbing, it's worth disclosing this as the definitions are all arbitrary, which I'm sure will be discussed at length in subsequent pages.)

As for the 'day flash', I'll simply call it first burn of the day because it's somewhat surprising to complete a project on the first attempt of the day, but I think it only makes sense. After a warm-up, you are as fresh as you will be for the duration of your session, and if you've already worked the problem relentlessly and wired it into muscle memory, there isn't much of a reason you *wouldn't* do it on your freshest attempt of the day.

All that said, there are no loopholes because the definitions are arbitrary and if you're not honest about all you did to achieve a flash or onsight then it's pretty much moot anyway; feed the ego, starve the soul.

Kees van der Heiden wrote:

::snip::

But I never heard about dayflash either. Must be something local. 

No it’s not. viperscale is just being a troll 

ViperScale . wrote:

(Day Flash) = First attempt of the day after having attempted it on another day

That's called 'redpoint'

Day flash is a red point ya kooks. So is a retro flash and Alzheimer’s flash. Flash bang has my vote.  

eli poss wrote:

Never heard of a day flash but I have heard of Alzheimer onsight. That's where you have forgotten everything about a climb after many years or TBI and are basically figuring it out anew.

Most common with old timers today repeating a route they did in the 70s or 80s  

I believe that’s called a greypoint.  Happens all the time here, where you toproped something a year or two ago then jump on it on lead and fuzzily remember some of the moves.

Anyways, re: onsight vs flash, IMO the distinction only really matters in the higher grades.  Most beginners don’t have the body control/vocabulary to benefit from beta in the same way that advanced climbers who pre-work sequences from the ground and can execute advanced maneuvers from muscle memory.  Sometimes there might be a key hidden hold or something like that, but in general it’s rare that it makes that significant of a difference to bother splitting hairs over a flash or onsight of a 10b.

One thing I find interesting is that Adam Ondra, for example, rarely goes for onsights but consistently tries (and succeeds) on hard flashes (Jade, Golden Ticket).

ViperScale . wrote:

I don't even use flash... i think it is retarded but I hear people use day flash all the time as well so. To me you either onsight it or don't there is nothing else but just bringing up other things I hear alot. Also think it is funny how a troll who post a question than thinks he knows everything about the question he asked.

Whoa, whoa, WHOA... Now, now viper... Let's not get too hasty brother.

I never said one word about not knowing anything.

Throwing out that "T" word like a couple of day flashes, not cool... I simply opened it up for discussion to see what came of the SUBJECTIVE terms.

Nothing but <3 over here big guy!

Barry M wrote:

Flash and onsight.....I’ve got no definition for you other then those are two terms used in dick measuring contest. That’s just my two cents. 

You must have the biggest dick to be above all that pettiness. Thank you for your judgement and enlightening us all.

Pretty much every climb has an easier way to the top. Our sport is nothing but contrived. I believe there are few climbers out there that don't get pleasure from feeling accomplished secondary to pushing themselves hard and seeing progress which occurs in an abundance of ways. Hard onsights/flashes relative to one's ability can be a sign of skill regardless of strength--whether you climb 5.10 or 5.15.

Personally, I'm psyched when I manage to onsight or flash routes when redlining close to my limit, and I'm stoked for others when they do as well. 

Ted Pinson wrote:

I believe that’s called a greypoint.  Happens all the time here, where you toproped something a year or two ago then jump on it on lead and fuzzily remember some of the moves.

The Alzheimer's onsight = the greenpoint = Stoner's onsight.

I've always heard Greypoint jokingly used as "I didn't send but would have if not for [_______]". Blank to be filled in with a check box from the Smith Rock excuse list (I'm unable to find a photo of the T-shirt for those not in the know. Anyone able to help out here?) 

Jake Jones wrote:

Wait, does this mean "day flash"?  Or just flash?  How about afternoon flash?  Post lunch flash?  I wasn't prepared to flash it before I ate.  Just didn't have the sustenance.  So I worked out the beta, then I flashed it after lunch.  What about lead flash?  Can I work out the moves on top rope, then flash it on lead?  I've actually heard someone say they did this.  

I agree that it's all arbitrary, and the definitions vary.  I also think they shouldn't.  Both definitions mean first try.  Ever.  If you can "flash" something after having worked it, then it obviously isn't a flash, at least not in the traditionally (widely) accepted definition of the word.

Now we can talk about what onsight means.  If someone gives you beta for the easy parts that you could climb easily anyway, is it still an onsight?  Can I get a "day onsight"?  How is that different from a "day flash"?

I was talking about 'flash' in the traditional, it was the first time you pulled onto the route, sense of flash. As I hope was evident from my post, I think day-flash is quite silly and actually makes a lot of sense/isn't something particularly special.

I do agree there's a lot of room to argue about the specifics of onsighting, but it's largely pointless if each individual is honest, like saying they knew the crux was at 3/4 height, or that they should head left to rest before the crux, etc...

But there's also a wide disparity in what I consider impressive when it comes to flashing. For instance, you can watched videos of Adam Ondra getting move-by-move, digit-specific beta at the Red from a panel of professional climbers when he flashes some mid-hard 5.14, which is still impressive, but arguably a lot less impressive than someone who does something similar with only knowledge of the crux sequence, having seen a clip of the climb a year ago, or whatever minimal knowledge disqualified them from having a true onsight. 

"Day flash" is a redpoint, no?

Conor Mark wrote:

"Day flash" is a redpoint, no?

Correct.

What about touching holds? I think that's valid in bouldering, right? What if you're rapping in over the line, and you get to fondle some of the crux grips?

Dayflash is hilarious, btw, and I think I'll start using that regularly and nonsensically.

Ask Sven

What if I've been trying all morning and I finally send at 12:05pm, can I call that an Afternoon Flash?

"Hold my beer, I'm going to after dinner flash this fucker right now."

Why do we need to get all nitty gritty and split hairs over this. I mean, unless your profession is to spray about climbing (sponsored) then all the little tiny details don't really matter. Just be honest about what you did. Or better yet, don't spray about it if it wasn't an onsight.

On the other hand, if you're a desk jockey who's bored at work... well that changes things. Carry on ye olde spray lords  

ChrisHau wrote:

What about touching holds? I think that's valid in bouldering, right? What if you're rapping in over the line, and you get to fondle some of the crux grips?

Dayflash is hilarious, btw, and I think I'll start using that regularly and nonsensically.

Touching and fondle leads to the Flashbang send.

eli poss wrote:

Never heard of a day flash but I have heard of Alzheimer onsight. 

AKA: "Flash-back."