Being Comfortable with Run Outs and R Rated Climbs

Amen to the focus-oriented comments above. It's all about focus on run out terrain that is below your physical limits. Improving that focus is the key... hence my prior yoga reccomendation. 

I think one problem is interpreting all run outs as equal. There is a big difference between feeling solid on good holds to stabbing up a holdless slab whatever the grade. Slab climbing requires practice. When I am solid 5.10 solo feels doable, but out of practice and feels like a suicide mission.

Best advice to climb 5.7R slab is to climb slabs first of all grades and hopefully better protected and know when to back off and down climb. In the not to distant past I backed off a 5.8R slab and immediately did a 5.10X crack - the difference being the level of control I felt. Still felt scared but do or die and I am here so you can guess how that went.

Don't forget it is about having fun. Don't feel obligated to do something because you feel you should. Doing anything dangerous should be with full knowledge and the right reasons and those will depend on each person. 

Rich Goldstone's comments are, as usual, excellent.  

FWIW, I would emphasize that In trad climbing a lot of safety comes from various types of mental and physical biofeedback coupled with an adequate amount of technique and surplus strength and stamina. 

You have to KNOW that you can down climb to safety (rest or good pro) before your strength gives out; this in turn depends on having developed gages that is always on and monitoring the situation.  Understand that, sometimes, you only need to down climb part of the way down to sufficiently shorten a fall to make it safe.

If you are going to knowingly launch into an R (or even an X!) graded climb, you have to know from experience approximately how comfortable you will feel at various difficulties at various distances of run out for different types of climbing, and keep cruising till something overcomes your confidence.  But keep a mental eye on that gauge!  If you decide to go for it, you have to be able to maintain confidence.

It helps immensely to be used to the local area and rock.

These skills come with practice and lots of mileage, which allows one to develop the confidence.  But confidence must be tempered by the knowledge that fitness, technique, and mental prowess vary over time, even day to day, so you have to be honest with yourself - overconfidence can get you into trouble fast.

For those of us who don't get outside often enough, there are some things that can be done in the gym or practice areas to hone these skills.  As mentioned above, down climbing toprope routes is good, because going down is not the same as up - balance and the gravity forces work differently on the muscles and body when going down.  For example, the larger muscle groups in the arms are usually less stressed, negative pull-ups are illustrative of the difference, but the fingers/forearms pretty much have to work just as hard.  The visuals change too.  Down climbing after you are pumped from TRing a route near your limit is particularly good.  Up-down toperope repeats on moderates for as long as possible till failure is also good (even with a bit of slack to make it mentally a little spicy), but be sure to try to maintain good form right up till failure.  Slowly climbing up and down at the top of easy-to-moderate boulder problems can also train the brain to perform when there is a feeling of exposure/risk. Taking practice lead falls is also excellent for preparing for those instances when falling is not an option because, ironically, if we are relaxed, confident, and smooth, we are less likely to fall on those runout sections of climbing.  

Be safe out there people.

Benjamin Mitchell wrote:

What's the appeal? Genuine question. I always pass these routes up cause I'd much rather get on a 5.10 crack than some 5.6 no pro slab that I could die on. 

Usually, you do not die... just lose a bit of skin and your pride for falling off a 5.6 

Ohio Bill wrote:

I once ended up in a situation on the slabs at the top of Black Magic at the Needles where I was 50' above the last bolt. My belayer was yelling that I was going to come to the end of the rope 10' short of the anchors. Faced with downclimbing the whole thing to move the belay up or simulclimbing the last stretch, we went for the simul. I just tried to focus on the fact that my hands and feet were going to save me, not the rope. Realistically it was probably stiff 5.6 slab and I'd be cruising it on toprope. "I am the protection" became my mantra and it got me thinking about the moves and not the fear. There's one enormocast where they talk about this, how it's your hands and feet that save you 99% of the time whether you have gear or not. 

From a psychology standpoint, it's all about getting in the flow state or "the zone", where your skills and confidence are optimally matched to the challenge. Michael Reardon would talk about getting in the "six-foot eggshell" while soloing, where nothing beyond that radius matters. If the runouts seem too gnarly, try reaching that zone with circuits of easy highball bouldering. The more time you spend in that zone, the more likely you are to choose focus over fear. 

You did the right thing. You have to take in the fact that if you both fell it's more likely than not that the bolt would have held you both . On FA's of slabs I rarely used chalk for my hands .. I used it to mark tiny footholds (if they were any)  to help with any bits of downclimbing  

I like the the concept of stages underlying "I am the protection."  In sport climbing, the protection has been provided by someone else.  It is just there, there is nothing about it that the climber actively creates; they just have to clip it.   In trad climbing, the climber has to arrange for the protection as well as making the moves.  When things get run out, there is no protection system beyond the fact that the climber is the protection.

rgold wrote:

I like the the concept of stages underlying "I am the protection."  In sport climbing, the protection has been provided by someone else.  It is just there, there is nothing about it that the climber actively creates; they just have to clip it.   In trad climbing, the climber has to arrange for the protection as well as making the moves.  When things get run out, there is no protection system beyond the fact that the climber is the protection.

Climbing shoes are also kinda a form of protection. I tried to climb an easy 500ft slab climb barefoot onetime. Problem was the wall faced the sun and I ended up burning my feet and putting shoes back on halfway up.

Practice down climbing as all the prior posters have said. But a key observation is that most of the time it is easier to downclimb a 5.10 vertical route than a 5.7 slab. So I re-iterate that if the concern is 5.7R, it is most likely a thin granite slab without a lot of holds making reversing a move very tenuous. Easier to continue up. So practice slab climbing. Develop the mentality that "this is a slab, I can't possibly fall off as my feet are just too good". For everything else, all the suggestions above apply.

Tim Lutz wrote:

a 'like' shows that you purport to have the knowledge base to have an opinion.  I doubt 48 people on MP have taken LSD in their lives, much less on an R climb.  

I suspect people 'like' it cuz the concept was made cool by the Stonemaster lore.

I would say that I'm sure 48 people who go on MP have taken acid and climbed 'R' rated climbs. I don't know a lot of people, but I know enough personally that I would say there are at least 50 people easily...

There is nothing wrong with 'projecting' an R rated section of a climb, assuming you have taken all the above advice (i.e, practiced your downclimbing skils and ability to focus) and the R section is downclimbable. Get up into it a ways. Back off, work it again, building confidence on the section you've already done.  Memorize the moves.  Once you've completed the pitch, set up a top rope (even if you're in the middle of a multi-pitch route) and do it again on TR. You know how much easier things seem on TR :)  Find the 'best' way to do the R section and practice on TR.  Build more confidence.  By the fourth or fifth time up the pitch it'll feel nearly like a 'walk up' and you'll wonder why it was so scary initially.  Don't get me wrong; it'll still get your blood moving if you come back some other day and climb it again; but you'll "know" you can do it, which makes all the difference between terror and mere 'focused fear'.

Ohio Bill wrote:

Michael Reardon would talk about getting in the "six-foot eggshell" while soloing, where nothing beyond that radius matters.

*8 ft egg shell. 

That is so true because I normally don't have a problem with leading but I can't walk to the edge of a cliff and set a top rope due to my fear of heights.

John Wilder wrote:

Well, for starters, if you want to climb multi pitch, you'll almost certainly have to deal with run outs at some point on some route you want to do. 

In red rock, most of the mega classic moderates have some flavor of run out on them- some much more serious than others, but nonetheless, if you want to climb them, you'll need to deal with it. 

Also, even on alot of classic single pitch 5.10s and up, you'll find sections of easier terrain that isn't well protected. 

Being able to deal with run outs is part of the trad game unless you're only climbing splitters in the desert. 

Unless it's an Urioste route, and then the problem is bringing enough quickdraws to clip every bolt on a pitch. :)