Mountain Project Logo

Building strength as a typical hardgainer

5.samadhi Süñyātá · · asheville · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 40
Pavel Burov wrote:

Just a bit of training wisdom. I have learnt it hard way. Please make everything possible to learn it easy way.

When in training phase make your everyday life as comfortable and safe as possible.

Wear the shoes with the best anti-slipping sole available. Wear mittens when outside (not gloves). Do not fry (I ruined about a months of hard work last winter cooking a dinner, just a splash of heated oil got on my fingers and I'm out for three weeks to heal 'em). Always use potholders when cooking. Be focused on yer kitchen - thinking about this and that while cooking is a sure way to get a stupid injury. Sharpen yer knives. Hide and cover sharp objects (especially chairs - too many people get injured approaching washroom in the middle of the night colliding with forgotten chair midway). Do not climb a chair barefoot (e.g. to change a light bulb). Do not (like never) use yer freaking smartphone on the go (a big no-no). Double check crossing a street. Drive safe. Open doors slowly. Approaching any door be ready it will open all sudden. Be extra cautious with those foam/paper coffee cups. When in cafeteria think about all beautiful people around as they are approaching you to flip theirs trays on your head. Etc, etc, etc.

Any stupid injury will throw you back and ruin several weeks (or even months) of your efforts. Use caution and treat yourself as an extremely vulnerable person.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Epic post, fucking hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 50

OK, I am about to post yet another hilarious post to make you LOL toward ROFL.

Being on schedule one has a moral obligation to be on schedule. Any kind of excuse to unstick from the routine due to any kind of preventable event is a kiddish attitude. One has a goal and a schedule to meet it, any kind of derouting is a sure indicator of that particular one is not an adult.

5.samadhi Süñyātá · · asheville · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 40
Pavel Burov wrote:

OK, I am about to post yet another hilarious post to make you LOL toward ROFL.

Being on schedule one has a moral obligation to be on schedule. Any kind of excuse to unstick from the routine due to any kind of preventable event is a kiddish attitude. One has a goal and a schedule to meet it, any kind of derouting is a sure indicator of that particular one is not an adult.

hmmmm.....can't tell...if...serious....or not :/

5.samadhi Süñyātá · · asheville · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 40
Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 50
5.samadhi wrote:

chocolate to morphine. NICE DUDE!!!! Hands down the best 11d on the planet imo

Nice climb. Highly overrated. I would guess Fr 6b+/6c (YDS 5.10+/5.11-).

Aweffwef Fewfae · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 0

hard gainers have the highest advantage in climbing, i ignored this post because i thought it was bragging. apparently, it's utter confusion. 

muscle fibers are bad. they are extra weight. body builders have a lot of these, and can't lift a water bottle off the ground. they can, however, lift a sheet paper 2 billion times. this is the opposite of climbing. 

what you want are actually muscle activators. these are called sarconuclei and weigh essentially nothing. this is what you want. these will contract harder when you crank harder. 

but but what about my trad routes? it doesn't matter - the way you build sarconuclei is high intensity interval training. which is you throw as much weight into your hands as possible (3 seconds max) and then do it again. . . and again, and a...

here's where the latest research suggests that climbing routes won't help you at all. you want to power the sarconuclei, you need high aerobic capacity. doesn't matter how you get there. you can run, bike, row whatever. you power the sarconuclei and you'll be able to recover your max strength while climbing. muscle fibers are mostly to impress others. in fact, the supplements have been shown repeatedly to not do anything. old research about glucosamine, chondroitin and other miracle drugs were all unsubstantiated and later shown to be irreproducible. high protein diets can show up to 11% muscle size increase. so stay away from diets too high in those. as mentioned. 

caveat - it's almost impossible to build sarconuclei exclusively. muscle mass will eventually follow, even on a calorie deficit. frustrating, but welcome to humanity. if you look at top climbers, do you see hulking figures or do you see people that look like they're losing their battle with anorexia? also if what i said is true, if boulderers go on a bike ride every now and then, they should dominate the sport climbing community, right? guess what happened this year? 

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 300
Aweffwef Fewfae wrote:

guess what happened this year? 

Ondra went from being a stick figure and actually put on some muscles, and sent the hardest route in the world?

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
Aweffwef Fewfae wrote:

hard gainers have the highest advantage in climbing, i ignored this post because i thought it was bragging. apparently, it's utter confusion. 

muscle fibers are bad. they are extra weight. body builders have a lot of these, and can't lift a water bottle off the ground. they can, however, lift a sheet paper 2 billion times. this is the opposite of climbing. 

what you want are actually muscle activators. these are called sarconuclei and weigh essentially nothing. this is what you want. these will contract harder when you crank harder. 

but but what about my trad routes? it doesn't matter - the way you build sarconuclei is high intensity interval training. which is you throw as much weight into your hands as possible (3 seconds max) and then do it again. . . and again, and a...

here's where the latest research suggests that climbing routes won't help you at all. you want to power the sarconuclei, you need high aerobic capacity. doesn't matter how you get there. you can run, bike, row whatever. you power the sarconuclei and you'll be able to recover your max strength while climbing. muscle fibers are mostly to impress others. in fact, the supplements have been shown repeatedly to not do anything. old research about glucosamine, chondroitin and other miracle drugs were all unsubstantiated and later shown to be irreproducible. high protein diets can show up to 11% muscle size increase. so stay away from diets too high in those. as mentioned. 

caveat - it's almost impossible to build sarconuclei exclusively. muscle mass will eventually follow, even on a calorie deficit. frustrating, but welcome to humanity. if you look at top climbers, do you see hulking figures or do you see people that look like they're losing their battle with anorexia? also if what i said is true, if boulderers go on a bike ride every now and then, they should dominate the sport climbing community, right? guess what happened this year? 

Just wondering where you read all this?

Beean · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 0

Have you thought about just not being so weak?

ROCKMAN2 · · Nederland, CO · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 320

I would suggest way more bouldering. You will stomp on cruxes when you encounter them if you're confident in your bouldering abilities. Don't focus on grades, focus on problems that challenge and expose your weaknesses, including flexibility, toe-hooks, campusing, bicycling, and other funky/challenging maneuvers that are more frequently found in bouldering. Expand your confidence and your bag of tricks, the physical and mental strength will likely follow. 

5.samadhi Süñyātá · · asheville · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 40
Aweffwef Fewfae wrote:

hard gainers have the highest advantage in climbing, i ignored this post because i thought it was bragging. apparently, it's utter confusion. 

muscle fibers are bad. they are extra weight. body builders have a lot of these, and can't lift a water bottle off the ground. they can, however, lift a sheet paper 2 billion times. this is the opposite of climbing. 

what you want are actually muscle activators. these are called sarconuclei and weigh essentially nothing. this is what you want. these will contract harder when you crank harder. 

but but what about my trad routes? it doesn't matter - the way you build sarconuclei is high intensity interval training. which is you throw as much weight into your hands as possible (3 seconds max) and then do it again. . . and again, and a...

here's where the latest research suggests that climbing routes won't help you at all. you want to power the sarconuclei, you need high aerobic capacity. doesn't matter how you get there. you can run, bike, row whatever. you power the sarconuclei and you'll be able to recover your max strength while climbing. muscle fibers are mostly to impress others. in fact, the supplements have been shown repeatedly to not do anything. old research about glucosamine, chondroitin and other miracle drugs were all unsubstantiated and later shown to be irreproducible. high protein diets can show up to 11% muscle size increase. so stay away from diets too high in those. as mentioned. 

caveat - it's almost impossible to build sarconuclei exclusively. muscle mass will eventually follow, even on a calorie deficit. frustrating, but welcome to humanity. if you look at top climbers, do you see hulking figures or do you see people that look like they're losing their battle with anorexia? also if what i said is true, if boulderers go on a bike ride every now and then, they should dominate the sport climbing community, right? guess what happened this year? 

I dunno about your theory my man.....my friend is 5'7" and 190lb and casually crushes V8s :/

Cole Morgan · · Portland,Oregon · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 5
Aweffwef Fewfae wrote:

hard gainers have the highest advantage in climbing, i ignored this post because i thought it was bragging. apparently, it's utter confusion. 

muscle fibers are bad. they are extra weight. body builders have a lot of these, and can't lift a water bottle off the ground. they can, however, lift a sheet paper 2 billion times. this is the opposite of climbing. 

what you want are actually muscle activators. these are called sarconuclei and weigh essentially nothing. this is what you want. these will contract harder when you crank harder. 

but but what about my trad routes? it doesn't matter - the way you build sarconuclei is high intensity interval training. which is you throw as much weight into your hands as possible (3 seconds max) and then do it again. . . and again, and a...

here's where the latest research suggests that climbing routes won't help you at all. you want to power the sarconuclei, you need high aerobic capacity. doesn't matter how you get there. you can run, bike, row whatever. you power the sarconuclei and you'll be able to recover your max strength while climbing. muscle fibers are mostly to impress others. in fact, the supplements have been shown repeatedly to not do anything. old research about glucosamine, chondroitin and other miracle drugs were all unsubstantiated and later shown to be irreproducible. high protein diets can show up to 11% muscle size increase. so stay away from diets too high in those. as mentioned. 

caveat - it's almost impossible to build sarconuclei exclusively. muscle mass will eventually follow, even on a calorie deficit. frustrating, but welcome to humanity. if you look at top climbers, do you see hulking figures or do you see people that look like they're losing their battle with anorexia? also if what i said is true, if boulderers go on a bike ride every now and then, they should dominate the sport climbing community, right? guess what happened this year? 

Do you have some links for peer-reviewed articles of this information? I searched around google scholar and can't find any articles corroborating your info.

Stephen C · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 0

I'm a bit of a hard gainer and I have to do strength exercises other than bouldering in order to climb my best.

I have friends that can just climb/boulder and they will continue to get stronger and progress. If I do this I plateau quickly. I supplement with gymnastics strength exercises and campus boarding and it works for me. It helps me gain strength/power that wouldn't be possible for me by simply climbing/bouldering. If you want to do supplemental strength exercises make sure you're keeping the exercises in the strength zone (3-6 reps or so). For example, doing a bunch of pushups won't make you strong. It'll just give you better pushup endurance.

Regarding posts above....there is absolutely nothing wrong with dips assuming you have enough basic strength to attempt the exercise. For those too weak to do the exercise it should not be attempted. In fact dips are a fundamental gymnastics exercise and are fantastic for developing the shoulder girdle. I highly recommend doing dips. I prefer to do them on rings. There are many variations that you can do to keep them in the strength zone.

Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651

If high aerobic capacity from running/biking/rowing somehow makes you become a better climber you f*cking suck at climbing. 

5.samadhi Süñyātá · · asheville · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 40
Nick Drake wrote:

If high aerobic capacity from running/biking/rowing somehow makes you become a better climber you f*cking suck at climbing. 

Or maybe before a person started cross training they were overtraining in climbing. Little time away from climbing staying active sometimes makes a person stronger at climbing!

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion they "suck at climbing" though ;)

Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651
5.samadhi wrote:

Or maybe before a person started cross training they were overtraining in climbing. Little time away from climbing staying active sometimes makes a person stronger at climbing!

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion they "suck at climbing" though ;)

I was responding to this excerpt, "here's where the latest research suggests that climbing routes won't help you at all. you want to power the sarconuclei, you need high aerobic capacity. doesn't matter how you get there. you can run, bike, row whatever. you power the sarconuclei and you'll be able to recover your max strength while climbing."

Localized strength and endurance in forearms isn't trained by running! 

5.samadhi Süñyātá · · asheville · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 40
Nick Drake wrote:

I was responding to this excerpt, "here's where the latest research suggests that climbing routes won't help you at all. you want to power the sarconuclei, you need high aerobic capacity. doesn't matter how you get there. you can run, bike, row whatever. you power the sarconuclei and you'll be able to recover your max strength while climbing."

Localized strength and endurance in forearms isn't trained by running! 

Agree. That entire post you quoted the excerpt from was very strange/very misleading.

Highlander · · Ouray, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 256

As someone with a graduate degree in exercise physiology, and who spent many years coaching national level athletes that relied on having a high strength to body weight ratio as part of performance, I would ask the question "Why would you want to gain weight"? There are ways to train to become a stronger more powerful athlete without bulking up and putting on unneeded weight.  

5.samadhi Süñyātá · · asheville · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 40
Highlander wrote:

As someone with a graduate degree in exercise physiology, and who spent many years coaching national level athletes that relied on having a high strength to body weight ratio as part of performance, I would ask the question "Why would you want to gain weight"? There are ways to train to become a stronger more powerful athlete without bulking up and putting on unneeded weight.  

injury prevention

Stephen C · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 0
Highlander wrote:

As someone with a graduate degree in exercise physiology, and who spent many years coaching national level athletes that relied on having a high strength to body weight ratio as part of performance, I would ask the question "Why would you want to gain weight"? There are ways to train to become a stronger more powerful athlete without bulking up and putting on unneeded weight.  

putting on weight for most climbers wouldn't be a good idea. The OP is 6 feet and 140 lbs which puts him on the very skinny end. He might be able to use some added muscle to his benefit both for injury prevention as well as climbing specific strength.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Training Forum
Post a Reply to "Building strength as a typical hardgainer"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.