Being Comfortable with Run Outs and R Rated Climbs

Getting comfortable with exposure and risk is definitely learnable to some extent for many. The less often you fall and more easily you onsight climbs, the more manageable high risk climbs become.  Of course, it helps to be proficient at route finding, downclimbing, choss management, etc. It can even be useful to be good at escaping into easier terrain.  (Maybe a blend of some of the above skills.)

it also helps to be current. I consider myself a pretty strong slab climber but I backed off a few slab climbs this summer mostly due to ring rust. too much work and not enough play make Nick a chicken. 

Run outs are their own facet of climbing. You do what you have to do, get your partner to do it for you, or just focus on the other challenges. If it’s worth it and speaks to you, then start getting the mileage in. If it doesn’t, it probably is not worth worrying over.

My vote: Practice lots of down climbing on similar grades you "intend" to do the "R" routes. Practice to "hang on" to dicey stands instead of "cranking through". Endurance in your calfs (mostly for mental support!) is more important than your single-finger pull-up capability.

Note of caution: Protection rating seems to vary even more than difficulty rating in guide books from different climbing areas. So if you "get used to" R climbs at your home crag, it doesn't mean you'll be happy on R climbs elsewhere. 

Note of caution 2: In my mind, there are two different types of R rating. One is lack of gear. The other is questionable rock. Lack of gear on solid rock is very different from cranking on lose flakes and the two require different techniques. R rated solid rock can be pleasurable (after some practice), but R rated choss is always ... eeh, shall we say "exciting"? 

trailridge wrote:

LSD on easier climbs seems to be pretty effective or LSD on harder climbs works too

LSD just might be the answer to any problem! Just don't climb up anything you can't down climb! So no dynos!!!

Patrik wrote:

Practice lots of down climbing on similar grades you "intend" to do the "R" routes.

Excellent.
Slight amendment: Practice lots of down-climbing on similar rock at _harder_ grades.

On single-pitch (half-pitch) days, I try down-climb (on Top-Rope) at least a third of the lines I climb up. Down-cllimbing stuff near your on-sight up-climbing capability is just an interesting challenge in itself -- leverages the time and effort of setting up / leading the line and of hiking into the area. Lots of time I down-climb on-sight (after getting up an adjacent route), then climb it upward - (or not bother climbing it upward).

If I'm the last climber on a single-pitch route, after cleaning the top, normally instead of lowering off, I down-climb
. . (puts less wear on my rope and on the anchor hardware).

Ken

My answer would be:  climb at Tuolumne Meadows once..  So run out but so fun!

Not sure if it's been mentioned but, practicing and focusing on controlling your breathing and heart rate on lead is a great way to find comfort high above gear. When they spike, find a rest or down climb to one to get them back in line.

There's no shortage of reasonably protected climbs in North Carolina, but there are indeed a good number of runout (by design) routes to test your mettle on. I go to Stone Mountain every so often to re-calibrate my lead head for runouts and still find myself periodically wondering what the hell I'm doing when look down and see the nearest pro is too small to make out clearly. It does make being 10 feet runout elsewhere seem less crazy after you've been 50+ feet runout. I'm not sure that is a rational thing though since you would get pretty jacked up falling in either scenario depending on the terrain; granted the type of damage you'd take sliding 80 feet is different than falling 20 through the air onto a ledge. Being open to a little runout here and there will open up a lot more routes to you for sure though.

I'm by no means a no zen master of R routes but my take is dealing with R is about being confident but having enough practical experience to know when confident crosses the line into cocky and backing down is prudent. It also is the sort of thing where my state of mind can change over time, which can affect whether I should attempt a runouts route on a given day. Knowing you *can* climb something helps but doesn't mean that just because you can do it (or even did the same route previously) it'll go today. The consequences of just trying to "power through" are a lot higher so listen to your best rational inner voice, but don't let fear totally dominate the discussion. 

I hope this isn't a curt response to this topic.  My answer: yoga.  More specifically, yogic breathing.  I have often found myself in that position where fear begins to take over.  When I look down at my last piece of protection and ahead at the terrain above me and have that thought: "a fall here would be bad."  Once that gets in the head, the best thing (for me) is to focus on the breathing.  Not only does it maintain the oxygen levels getting to your exhausted forearms, but also gives you something to think about beyond potential injury should you take a fall.  Use the breathing to get your head back in order and make the moves that will get you to the next pro.  The goal is not to end all fear, but to recognize it, acknowledge it, and put it aside until it is more useful.  Fear creates mistakes, mistakes that can, on run-out terrain, have potentially nasty consequences.  I always have these moments on big (for me) climbs, and this is part of the fun of it.  But it must be controlled in an effort to have a safe and happy outing, which is always what I am after.  Good luck and climb on.

S2k4 Life wrote:

Wow That has to be the longest post I've ever seen on here

And I assure you, it's good.

Rich Goldstone takes care in what he writes, so if you take the time to read the whole post you will benefit from his experience tremendously. Not everything can be condensed into a pithy quote.

downclimbing friction slab at the 5.7 or 5.8 level when youre runout is, realistically, not goingto happen.   just try "practicing" and you'll see the absurdity of this suggestion. even on runouts on more featured faces once youre committed to the sequence and well above gear you'de have better made the right call to "go for it" because once you start backing off/downclimbing, you are more afraid/shaky/unable to read the rock/prone to panic.  i've seen more people launch off and take a huge whipper (feeling more in control of the fall) than risk downclimbing and unexpectedly fall with less control.  

About actually being in a runout/R section... to me, the key thing is: you can dither as much you want when you're just about to enter that section. Puff those hands for 30 minutes on a rest hold until you're all chalked up to the elbows. At that point you can ask yourself all the questions and doubt all you want. Once you do commit though, you've made the call - it's not time to doubt anymore, but rather to be focus on your sequence. The doubts have been dealt with below. If they haven't, you shouldn't commit.

sc thomas wrote:

downclimbing friction slab at the 5.7 or 5.8 level when youre runout is, realistically, not goingto happen.   just try "practicing" and you'll see the absurdity of this suggestion. even on runouts on more featured faces once youre committed to the sequence and well above gear you'de have better made the right call to "go for it" because once you start backing off/downclimbing, you are more afraid/shaky/unable to read the rock/prone to panic.  i've seen more people launch off and take a huge whipper (feeling more in control of the fall) than risk downclimbing and unexpectedly fall with less control.  

My friend downclimbed 20' of 5.8 friction in Tuolumne when he realized he was to the right of the anchors by about 30'. Downclimbing was far less sketch than a straight left traverse 25' above the last bolt. So yea, realistically, it can happen if you keep your head.

climb the rock, not the bolts

paul scott wrote:

climb the rock, not the bolts

Huh?

Marc801 C wrote:

Perhaps you should work to lengthen your attention span beyond 120 characters.

Heh, I erased the last part of my post which was "PS: downclimbing slab sucks, but traversing slab is worse".  For what it's worth, I've also downclimbed 5.8 slab and definitely was happy to do that rather than just give up and launch. If you stay in position you might be able to just slide or do a little "dance", (sorta quickly letting your hands and feet skip along to slow a little without just leaving a bunch of skin behind) rather than go flying, depending on the angle.  If you have your head on a bit you can quickly get into areas where downclimbing at least some is important because falling even partway through the runout is a bad idea.

Daniel Melnyk wrote:

How do you get used to run outs or commit to an R rated climb? I've been sport climbing outside for almost a year and have no problem jumping on routes at or above my limit. But as soon as it's a run out on a trad climb I have a hard time. ...

If I were your "mentor", I would suggest to stay away from (onsighting) R ratings with your limited trad gear experience (assuming that you have done less trad than sport). R rated climbs often means sparse gear, but often also the gear you do get can be very thin and troublesome to place. Not having extensive experience with micro nuts can easily turn an R rating into X *. And I don't care if you have a triple rack of shiny totem cams.

Edit: * The usefulness of micro nuts is of course strongly dependent on where you climb. No micro nuts will save yer bacon on soft desert rock.

Play the game for more than you can afford to lose... only then will you learn the game. Winston Churchill