How to increase friction on a quickdraw?

The Gri Gri (or similar) is the modern standard for safely increasing a belayer's ability to hold a fall. I'm pretty sure that most manufacturers would object to their products being used to create a home-made system of increasing friction only during a fall on a quickdraw. I know this isn't a specific answer to your question but I had to add my opinion here. 

BD has a new assisted braking device, the ATC-Pilot, for $44.95. It looks similar to the Ohm. I haven't used it yet. As for the price point- $130 for the Ohm, $150 for the Gri Gri-- this is in the ballpark of a single medical copay. They will also help you climb harder, knowing that your belayer will hold your fall. This is well worth the cost! 

Cheers, 

Jeff

This adds quite a bit of friction, but it's hard to tell how much. Thoughts?

EDIT: It seems that if the carabiner twists in a different direction, the whole thing can lock up completely. That is probably the biggest danger.

Jack Servedio wrote:

Oh, I fully agree - both the things I mentioned were just ideas and both stupid in practice. There is a good reason people don't do them. I am extremely light (145lbs) so when I am climbing with taller guys who aren't malnourished, I am fairly frequently outweighed by 40-50lbs, sometimes more, and I've never had a problem that can't be solved with my end of the rope or a cordelette and a couple biners.

However, as an engineer, I can appreciate what David is asking, even if it is pointless in the real world, since solving engineering problems related to climbing can be fun. It's how new stuff is invented.

Thanks for this! Now I have a new euphemism for my extra padding. "I'm not overweight, I'm well-nourished!"

Sebastian Reichelt wrote:

This adds quite a bit of friction, but it's hard to tell how much. Thoughts?

EDIT: It seems that if the carabiner twists in a different direction, the whole thing can lock up completely. That is probably the biggest danger.

I like that you take an ironing board climbing. Always good to be wrinkle free!

AndrewArroz wrote:

I like that you take an ironing board climbing. Always good to be wrinkle free!

Where does he rack the iron?

Sebastian Reichelt wrote:

This adds quite a bit of friction, but it's hard to tell how much. Thoughts?

EDIT: It seems that if the carabiner twists in a different direction, the whole thing can lock up completely. That is probably the biggest danger.

Ooh, that looks promising and I have that same ATC Guide, so I could try this! I'm not too worried about rope damages because all those surfaces the rope would touch are smooth and intended for rope to press against them with some force.

I wonder if there's a way to slip the wire of the carabiner through that open loop of the ATC to keep it from turning. It seems like it would change the pinch direction, but maybe that's okay.

I'm going actual outdoor climbing tomorrow, so I'm probably not going to have a chance to do mad science in the gym for a few days.

David Kerkeslager wrote:

Ooh, that looks promising and I have that same ATC Guide, so I could try this! I'm not too worried about rope damages because all those surfaces the rope would touch are smooth and intended for rope to press against them with some force.

I wonder if there's a way to slip the wire of the carabiner through that open loop of the ATC to keep it from turning. It seems like it would change the pinch direction, but maybe that's okay.

I'm going actual outdoor climbing tomorrow, so I'm probably not going to have a chance to do mad science in the gym for a few days.

Curious to know if it unlocks after someone falls on overhanging terrain or if you end up with a stuck climber having to scale up the rope. 

That bend should add some extra friction, at least if/once the belayer is close to the wall.

You may want to replace the quickdraw with a single biner so it catches earlier. It should be easy to test the amount of added friction by lowering someone/something.

P.S. About that ironing board... Maybe I should change my answer to that "are you conscious about what you wear climbing" survey question.

After 7 pages, I am still unsure if I am convinced about the existence of a problem in the first place.

I'm 140, so the max difference in weight I've seen as a belayer would be about 40 pounds. You really just have to inspect the setup of the climb & first 2-3 draws, remind yourself to not belay dynamically... I've had harder catches with heavier climbers, but then you can also have hard catches with relatively even weights so...

Franck Vee wrote:

After 7 pages, I am still unsure if I am convinced about the existence of a problem in the first place.

I'm 140, so the max difference in weight I've seen as a belayer would be about 40 pounds. You really just have to inspect the setup of the climb & first 2-3 draws, remind yourself to not belay dynamically... I've had harder catches with heavier climbers, but then you can also have hard catches with relatively even weights so...

I'm 105, and the max difference  I have experienced as a belayer is 115 lb.

So be assured, the problem does exist.

OHM is for indoor gym crap Period.

Maybe you all should learn how to belay properly.

Or just play indoors at the gym.

Jeff constine wrote:

OHM is for indoor gym crap Period.

Maybe you all should learn how to belay properly.

Or just play indoors at the gym.

Tell us how you really feel.

Jeff constine wrote:

OHM is for indoor gym crap Period.

Maybe you all should learn how to belay properly.

Or just play indoors at the gym.

Or.

You could learn how to participate in a conversation.

Not getting out, I take it? It's rainy here, FWIW. I'm just about to goretex up and go for a bike ride so I don't go too nuts. :-/

Best, OLH

eli poss wrote:

What about something like this on the first bolt? You could increase the resistance by adding weight to the silver biner

I'm guessing that it would either not create enough friction or create too much that climbing and clipping become difficult, depending on how much weight you clip to the silver biner. But if you're looking for ideas to experiment with, here ya go.

For the sake of discussion I'll entertain the OPs questions and I think Eli is on to something here. The shortcoming of this system is that weight on the silver biner is going to create friction when climbing, but as soon a the leader takes a fall the silver biner will likely get pulled up in line with the other biners (depending on how much weight you have on it) resulting in almost no added friction. 

The simplest mod would be to rig this on the 2nd bolt and have a cord from the first bolt (or ground anchor) to the silver biner. This would result in somewhat constant level of friction when climbing and falling.

Take it one step further and run a cord from the silver biner through the ground anchor and to the belayer. Elastic from the bolt to the silver biner (or preferably to the attachment point of the cord/sling on the silver biner) would keep it close to in line with the other biners while climbing adding minimal friction. In the event of a fall the belayer either moves away from the ground anchor or is pulled away by the force of a fall and as a result more friction is created with the silver biner.

Edit: Sorry if someone else has already posted a similar idea, just realized this thread is 7 pages long.

From a practical standpoint-just by the ohm. I've got one and while there are a few unique situations it doesn't work all that well in it's a great product. I don't know you, but if you have a trad rack and/or spend hours in the car every weekend driving to climbing areas you can probably afford it. I disagree with everyone who says that having your belayer anchor to the ground is a better solution than the ohm, but I guess it depends on the type of climbing you are doing. I can think of a lot of crags where options for building an anchor or slinging something are pretty scarce. If you're belaying someone on something hard where they are likely to take a fall or are projecting I'd prefer to be able to move around. Emptying my pack out and refilling it with rocks at every different wall I'm at during a long day of cragging sounds pretty annoying.

Hike to the crag with a 20-30lb kettle bell and girth it to your harness, more reasonable than any of this rope shredding insanity.

Sebastian Reichelt wrote:

That bend should add some extra friction, at least if/once the belayer is close to the wall.

You may want to replace the quickdraw with a single biner so it catches earlier. It should be easy to test the amount of added friction by lowering someone/something.

P.S. About that ironing board... Maybe I should change my answer to that "are you conscious about what you wear climbing" survey question.

So the climber gets to the first or 2nd bolt, unties completely from the rope to thread it through the eye of the ATC-G, then reties the Fig 8/bowline to attach themselves to the rope once again?  Sure... that'd work just fine.

Gunkiemike wrote:

So the climber gets to the first or 2nd bolt, unties completely from the rope to thread it through the eye of the ATC-G, then reties the Fig 8/bowline to attach themselves to the rope once again?  Sure... that'd work just fine.

Seems alot easier to go ahead and put it on right next to your figure 8 and it is ready to be used as soon as you clip in the first or 2nd draw. Could already go ahead and preclip the draw to it too if you wanted. Remember the rope coming off your harness doesn't move so anything on it won't stop you from climbing.

ViperScale wrote:

Seems alot easier to go ahead and put it on right next to your figure 8 and it is ready to be used as soon as you clip in the first or 2nd draw. Could already go ahead and preclip the draw to it too if you wanted. Remember the rope coming off your harness doesn't move so anything on it won't stop you from climbing.

Several years ago some small company tried to sell quickdraws with closed rings on them (in lieu of rope end biners), the idea being that the leader would stack them, pre-threaded as you suggest here, on their rope. Let me know next time you see any of those being used at the crag.