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Lifestyle choice: PA vs. DO/MD as a Climber!
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If life style and flexibility are truly more important to you than status or money consider being an RN. There are far more RN jobs out there which will give you more flexibility as far as where you can find a job, traveling, and flexibility of hours. New Grad RN's typically make $21.00 - $25.00 an hour to start, but that will go up significantly when you start your second job (get two years experience, change hospitals, and you're looking at $30-$35/hr. If you travel nurse, much more than that). Obviously it's not close to what MD/PA make, but its much less schooling, you don't need malpractice insurance, and you're gaining a ton of flexibility. Also, if you ever want to make more money, or gain more status you can go to NP or PA school later. I've been a nurse for 9 years, and though some days I hate it, it has been a great profession over all. I'm going to Thailand for two moths in a couple weeks, using 10 weeks of paid time off. I get to do that about every other year, in addition to multiple 8 day trips a year with out using paid time off. For me being an RN is a perfect balance of having a lot of time and freedom, and making enough money to be comfortable (you won't be the 1 or 2%, but probably like the 20%, and that's not bad...). |
Tim Lutz wrote: You mean their parents worked hard and made good choices? |
Tim Lutz wrote: As if climbers don't come from privileged backgrounds. |
Tim Lutz wrote: Well, I hope to leave money for my kids when I pass. And, I hope they can do that for their kids. Some [priveledged as you call them] kids are lazy or just party it up and don't do much with their lives. Good for the one's that study hard and get good jobs. #DONTBEJEALOUSOFTHOSETHATHAVEPARENTSANDGRANDPARENTSTHATWORKEDHARDANDMADEMONEY |
Tim Lutz wrote: |
Tim Lutz wrote: Sorry, Tim, that doesn't fly. I work regularly with 90 year olds. The vast majority had close to zero when they were young. Are some of their grandkids doing well? You bet. But it took several generations to get them there. My dad was blue collar, but scrapped for food to eat as a kid, not just for himself, but as the oldest kid, his siblings also. My brother has the first college degree in our extended family. Not a doctor, just a radiology tech. That ticket he got on his own. His son? Headed for architecture. My dad's dad? Greek. Came here as a teen, worked as itinerant labor on projects all over the west, and in fruit orchards until he was too old to do so. He lived in a four room house all of the time that I knew him. There is plenty of privilege in this country, always has been. That's why people come here. Best, Helen |
Tim Lutz wrote: My parents immigrated to this country and scraped by to attain middle class status. I personally worked through four degrees including my MD with loans to prove it. While a large amount of people do have parents that are well off this does not generalize to everyone. I work exceedingly hard in very stressful conditions with minimal Information frequently to save people’s lives...I chose my field but you shouldn’t belittle how hard I or most doctors have to work to be good at it and take care of people regardless of any belief or social status or monetary status. For this I get compensated well but consider I’ve spent most of my adult life so far in training and I’m going to die sooner because of my work. |
Sandbagger Vance wrote: So basically what you're saying is that you've never had the pleasure of undressing a homeless guy that shit himself three days ago, and just let that shit dry up in his pants. Never had the opportunity to scrape the yeast out from under the roles of a 700lbs woman, or had a crack-head spit in your face while calling you a "cock sucking, bitch-cunt, mother fucker". You've never even been given the chance to glove up, and dig rock-hard balls of shit out of a heroin addicts ass. Next time you are out in public, and notice someone with exceptionally bad hygiene, I mean really bad... try to picture them naked...then try to imagine how bad it would smell if you had to take their pants off, spread their legs, get your face fairly close to their crotch and insert a rubber tube into their pee-hole...aaaand then they shit themselves, again...all while their family was telling you how bad "this place sucks! You guys aren't even doing anything for her/him". Yes, there are a lot of upsides to working in healthcare, flexibility, decent pay, etc, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have plenty of shitty (pun intended) aspects as well. I think most people would be horrified if they actually knew the conditions some people live in, and the condition they allow themselves to be in. These aren't people you see out a the grocery store. They're people that don't leave the house, trailer, or apartment for years at a time (except for trips to the hospital), think nothing of not bathing for months, and are so addicted to drugs / alcohol, debilitated by mental illness, or neglected by family that living in squalor and filth slowly become normal. They often have no support system, or a very dysfunctional one. Unfortunately people like this live in every community, but go largely unnoticed by the vast majority of the rest of the community. Not to mention Healthcare professionals experience much higher rates of workplace violence than most other professions. Engineers are lucky in that their job does not force them to intimately interact with the full breath of the general public. Few jobs do. I don't know how cops do it. I think they have it even worse than healthcare professional ... Also, most "healthcare professionals" don't make over $120k/year. Yes it's possible, but outside of CA it's not the norm unless you're an MD. |
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I'm a physician and have found time to climb, ski, hike, etc. Not as often as I would like but still get out. Depending on what type of medicine you go into, you may or may not have time and energy to get out and enjoy yourself very often. The money for an MD is better vs. PA. Not so sure about prestige (not something I personally worry about). Hours can be awful, stress is high and it's easy to burn out. I don't hate what I do, but probably would do something else if I could travel back in time and start over. |
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Dave Budge nails it above. He is a highly respected PA in his community, which also happens to be one of the best climbing communities in the country. Everywhere I go I seem to run into someone that knows him in the medicine or climbing worlds. I totally agree with Dave. It’s blue collar medicine as a PA, and you are going to “hump it” working as a PA.....just the reality. |
BD wrote: because it's one of the rare professions in which if you study hard enough you will get through to a guaranteed high pay, whereas many other high-pay professions require other skills like creativity, innovation, risk taking and interpersonal skills...you know, skills that successful entrepreneurs possess. |
bruno-cx wrote: I do overhear them talking about which 750k house and which 20k a year private school to spend their money on. They seem to be in surgery 3-5 days a week plus clinic hours and on call. No thanks. I think most of the well established ones that shouldn't work as much still put in major overtime. The only ones I know who don't work too much are semi retired. |
K. Le Douche wrote: If this is you? Any of you? Thank you. Truly, deeply, thank you. I also serve these populations, but in a minor way. And they usually have their clothes on, are grateful, are mentally competant, and nonthreatening.... Most of the time. But not always. And. They die. Almost all of the them, for me. Best, Helen |
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Medicine is all-consuming, at least through four years of school and a minimum of three years of residency, so if climbing is your top priority, DON'T DO IT. Medicine is also incredibly rewarding, and now that I am on the other side of residency, I wouldn't trade what I do for just about anything. I love my job. I personally would not have career satisfaction from being a PA. I just wouldn't. I crave the responsibility for decisions, and at the end of the day I couldn't spend a career answering to someone else for every patient encounter. I wanted to be the best at what I do professionally. Now I have a flexible schedule, lots of free time, and I spend half of my time working abroad. Now that I'm an attending, I can finally climb, ski, and bike again. It's not that I couldn't do those things while in medical training. I learned to lead trad during my first year of medical school, and by the end of residency had climbed multiple Yosemite big walls including El Cap (it helps to do residency just a few hours away from Yosemite), so obviously I found time to develop as a climber. But there was never enough time for training, friends, and everything else, so my climbing trips were often frantic, and I never was able to train the way I wanted. Friends of mine who were more dedicated to climbing than me kept climbing at a higher standard than I did during residency, but it's hard, and nobody climbed to the level they thought they should. By the end of residency, I pretty much stopped climbing out of an overwhelming lack of motivation to do, well, anything. It's draining, and it's hard. |
K. Le Douche wrote: You just described just about every single day of my work. |
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And to the OP, you are welcome to PM me with any questions. |
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I've been out of med school for 7 years and finished family medicine residency 4 years ago and I can't imagine having any other job. My experience is probably different from other MD/DO posters as FP tends to be a little "easier" as far as residency is concerned but except for a few really crazy months I still had plenty of time for outside recreation as a resident ( I didn't climb back then but did hike or bike typically a few times per week). As an attending I have way more free time than I did as a a resident. Honestly the biggest obstacle to getting out now is family obligations and not the job. Pick whichever seems the better fit and if you have the right attitude everything else will take care of itself. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. |
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For me, impossible to say one way or the other. All I can tell you is my path: 5 years of med school and a masters followed by 7 years of residency. I am graduating this year from a top tier general surgery residency program. On any given day, I may have the privilege of helping someone in need, someone in pain, or someone who is dying. But I also bear the burden of knowing that when I make a mistake people can become hurt, or worse, and that I am the one who must acknowledge the responsibilities for my actions. At the end of the day, I think the personal sacrifice has been worth it. There are few experiences in this world as when I look into the eyes of a family member of an injured person and tell them that I think there loved one will be ok because of what my team and I have been able to accomplish. Do I climb as hard as I want to. No....and I likely never will. But my career in medicine isn't the cause, I just know that I will never be satisfied with any given summit or send, I always want something more. Having done first ascents on multiple continents, I know that there is always another peak, another, summit, another great challenge. Yet, I am drawn to climbing for the same reason I am drawn to medicine, because I am always striving to be better, to be more efficient, to push my own limits and see what is possible. The good news is that if you are dedicated, hard-working, lucky, and willing to sacrifice sleep, you can still climb. Because of the demands of my surgical training, I have adapted how I train to climb. I have to be more efficient than I was at 20. But sacrifices aren't sacrifices if you are doing something you are passionate about. At the end of the day, I can say without reservation that my life is more fulfilling because of both my climbing, and my medical career. And I would not be as good a surgeon as I am without the experiences I have had as a climber, nor as good a climber without the experiences of my surgical training. As many previous posters have said, there are many possible paths. So many of them will bring fulfillment. Just try and pursue your passion, and the rest will likely fall into place as it should. PM me if you want to chat. Joe Forrester |
Tim Lutz wrote: Russia pls go |
Mason Stone wrote: Sorry I didn't elaborate more on this post. Honestly, I have been responding to a bunch of people who PM'd me about the topic. I have never met any RNs or PAs who got an MD first and then went back to school. It was always the reverse. All of the people who I met in medical school who doubted their decision to go MD were the ones who went right to med school after college (including me). The ones who were most sure of their decision were the ones who waited and actually had other careers before they went back to med school. They attributed this to going out and experiencing all the different things the world had to offer before realizing their true calling. This included people in their 30s and 40s. Attrition is LOWER with higher age in my experience. I also strongly disagree with choosing an extremely committing road when you are young. I did this and I've met many others who did the same and it led to lots of wasted time and energy. As you said, how you feel now will be different in a few years. I was totally into medicine until about half way into medical school. Medicine is a great field if you love it. If you don't, it is a horrible trap. Also, I'm just trolling Lutz because he's trying to derail this thread. |
