Grabbing trees on Rp or onsights

Jake Forker wrote:

Anything that is not rock is out, and you are aid climbing....using tree roots etc is no better then pulling on draws or bolts. If you follow some of the logic of other people on this thread, saying that all natural things are in, does that mean that if theoretically there was a vine running the whole length of the cliff from bottom to top would that be in? No it is not, so then why if it is essentially the same thing would you not be able to use the vine but be able to use the root. If you are not strong enough or good enough to climb the route, get stronger or better, don't aid the route and claimed you climbed it.

Of course if there was a vine running the whole way down the route you could use it, that's why a route developer would remove said vine from a route that they wanted to be harder than climbing just a vine.  Saying that using tree roots etc is no better than pulling on draws or bolts is absolutely bogus.  A draw or bolt was put there artificially by man and therefor constitutes aid, vegetation is natural, so unless it is specifically designated as being off route for a specific grade then it is absolutely not aid.

If I could hit it on the way down, it's on on the way up.

ViperScale wrote:

Your photo example for your post stating "I have climbed more than one route that would have been impossible without" is Royal Arches where there's multiple variation at the same grade as the rest of the route now that the rotten log is gone? Seems like two separate posts, one for the text, and another for the photo.

Ken Noyce wrote:

Of course if there was a vine running the whole way down the route you could use it, that's why a route developer would remove said vine from a route that they wanted to be harder than climbing just a vine.  Saying that using tree roots etc is no better than pulling on draws or bolts is absolutely bogus.  A draw or bolt was put there artificially by man and therefor constitutes aid, vegetation is natural, so unless it is specifically designated as being off route for a specific grade then it is absolutely not aid.

There is a reason rock climbing is called rock climbing and not tree/root climbing, because we climb ROCKS and anything other than ROCKS is not in and therefore call it aiding or french free if you use a tree, shrub or part thereof. Simply put, get stronger and better, don't bring the climb down to your level then claim you did it when you used a root etc, thats CHEATING

There's no cheating in climbing; only lying.

If someone tells you they got an onsight while pulling on a root, you should high-five them because climbing is fun -- not launch into commentary on how trees aren't rocks.

Jake Forker wrote:

There is a reason rock climbing is called rock climbing and not tree/root climbing, because we climb ROCKS and anything other than ROCKS is not in and therefore call it aiding or french free if you use a tree, shrub or part thereof. Simply put, get stronger and better, don't bring the climb down to your level then claim you did it when you used a root etc, thats CHEATING

I couldn't find this in my climbing rule book, what page number is it on? 

Trees are in, as is grass, roots, moss and moose. 

kevin deweese wrote:

Your photo example for your post stating "I have climbed more than one route that would have been impossible without" is Royal Arches where there's multiple variation at the same grade as the rest of the route now that the rotten log is gone? Seems like two separate posts, one for the text, and another for the photo.

Sure that was just 1 example of people using a tree to climb. There are also some other pitches on it that have roots growing in the crack and pretty much require it along with many other routes I have climbed in other places with the same sorta trees all over the route. I always try to avoid using them if possible but when the crack of a route is being blocked by tree roots you don't have much of a choice.

Basically just don't lie about how you climb the route, tons of routes have grades based on how you did 1 section of the climb.