Throwing my banana...

Jim Turner wrote:

Y'all really disagree with "Don't feed the wildlife"?

If you brought your dog to the crag, you wouldn't want people to feed it, esp stuff like chocolate bars.

Same same for wildlife.

I agree with it in so far that it aculturates wildlife (I don't think this is the right word, but you get what I mean).  I understand that it's probably not good for their health in large quantities (e.g., garbage cans etc).  However, again, I have yet to see evidence that a banana peel would have an impact on wildlife species that is equivalent to chocolate to dogs.  And, again, I would actually very much like to see evidence to the contrary as it would give me a reason to tell people that throwing their banana is more than an inconvenience to other climbers.

Hobo Greg wrote:

Food scraps ARE trash. And everything bio degrades, it's just a matter of time. Peels might take years in the desert. In the meantime, it's just trash. Sure, MAYBE it's not bad for the earth, or maybe it is. Packing it out definitely avoids the latter, while tossing it is only hoping for the former. And if you wanna be the one going on hope, don't even try and talk to me about empirical evidence. If you're gonna throw the peel, it's on YOU to prove that it's OK.

But it's all good man. While you're here wasting people's time and acting childish, I was out doing a fifteen mile hike with an 800' 5.6 thrown in. Put that in your peel and smoke it.

Bags of plastic buried in anaerobic conditions in landfills probably don't biodegrade within the order of millennia.  The decomposition of the contents thereof is also greatly slowed.

Also, you can't prove a null hypothesis (eg: banana peels have no or a negligible impact on the environment in deciduous forest ecosystems).  As I see it, the burden of proof lies on you (though I'm not formally trained in logic, so if anyone can educate me on this, I'd appreciate it).

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/222/Shifting-of-the-Burden-of-Proof  

https://liesandstats.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/you-cant-prove-the-null-by-not-rejecting-it/

Emmett Lyman wrote:

Yeah, the impact of bio trash definitely depends on the local environment. Long-term best answer is composting, but it's hard to imagine a future where we're able to make it a mainstream habit. 

Not really. I moved to Boston from Seattle (temporarily). In Seattle, composting is mandatory (and every public garbage can must have a recycling receptacle next to it). One of my friends from college made the opposite move, and got 2 warning letters and then a citation for not composting food waste.

8 pages on bananas and its not even winter yet...

Yeah, You're all right. A banana peel does not carbon emissions equal.  I'm just frustrated with living in a country with a government that denies well-tested science that is accepted and being acted on in every other modern country.

El Duderino wrote:

However, again, I have yet to see evidence that a banana peel would have an impact on wildlife species that is equivalent to chocolate to dogs.  And, again, I would actually very much like to see evidence to the contrary as it would give me a reason to tell people that throwing their banana is...

Duderino, I don't have much on banana peels, but petmd.com says this about apple cores:

"It’s also important that you remove all seeds from an apple before giving it to your dog. Apple seeds contain cyanide, and although a few apple seeds likely won’t harm your dog, eating them over time can lead to the accumulation of cyanide in your dog’s system, which is quite hazardous."

A chipmunk, or her fetus, might have more tolerance to cyanide.  Or less...

YouTube must know that I've been entertaining myself with this thread because this showed up on the opening page today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F22qqGf8e3A

Next up: Female bullies looking for any reason to accost someone.

Is it toxic feminity?

Is it racial bias?

Are banana peels tossed into the ecosystem causing rage in women?

Will David Fogel ever find love again?

The answer to all these and more coming soon to MP

....... ;)

Boom.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/costa-rica-let-juice-company-dump-their-orange-peels-forestand-it-helped-180964666/

Tradiban wrote:

Boom.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/costa-rica-let-juice-company-dump-their-orange-peels-forestand-it-helped-180964666/

Nice try, but not quite.  No one has said that it wasn't biodegradable, the issue is the timeline (that article was 15 years after the dumping) and the issues created with land managers as people trash UNMOLESTED areas (creating access issues). They also dumped in areas already degraded and the soil damaged to the point of the forest not recovering from human abuse.  Also, the environment matters.  In a jungle it degrades quickly but in a desert or alpine environment the peel (or pile of them) will last a longer time and remain unsightly (in a nice, un molested space).  Although if you are inviting people to dump fruit waste on your front lawn, we can help, it will degrade after all.  :)

Tradiban wrote:

Boom.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/costa-rica-let-juice-company-dump-their-orange-peels-forestand-it-helped-180964666/

Oh hey, they discovered composting.

Sorry for resurrecting this thread! Had to share photographic evidence from the weekend. Banana peel, chillin on a rock below Castleton :/

Ammo wrote:

Sorry for resurrecting this thread! Had to share photographic evidence from the weekend. Banana peel, chillin on a rock below Castleton :/

 

How long has it been there? Oh, you don't know do you? 

Maybe we could find a way to come together on this topic.  Instead of the traveling stopper, how about the traveling banana peel and call it "the fellowship of the peel?"  Let's start with Tradiban telling us where he left his last peel and someone can agree to take it to the next destination, take a picture, tell us where it is, and so on.  Everyone wins.  (And we agree to no accosting because of its lack of appeal).  Happy Monday!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eXSIsNS4tw

Tradiban wrote:

How long has it been there? Oh, you don't know do you? 

It depends a lot on the environment in which it is decomposing. In a compost bin, which is an optimal environment for decomposition (hot, humid, full of microbes), it takes a few weeks, depending on the composting method used (http://homeguides.sfgate.com/long-banana-peels-compost-70620.html).

However, in colder or drier environments, it can take much longer. In Scotland, which is in the midst of an anti-litter campaign, they were observed to last as long as two years in the natural environment. It takes long enough that at one time, they estimated there were 1,000 banana peels on the main trail up Ben Nevis (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/sep/24/bananas-litter-hikers-mountains-scotland).

Not sure what this means for an environment like the Moab desert, which is quite dry and relatively free of microbes, but I'd say it's probably going to be there for a pretty long time.

Marcelo F wrote:

It depends a lot on the environment in which it is decomposing. In a compost bin, which is an optimal environment for decomposition (hot, humid, full of microbes), it takes a few weeks, depending on the composting method used (http://homeguides.sfgate.com/long-banana-peels-compost-70620.html).

However, in colder or drier environments, it can take much longer. In Scotland, which is in the midst of an anti-litter campaign, they were observed to last as long as two years in the natural environment. It takes long enough that at one time, they estimated there were 1,000 banana peels on the main trail up Ben Nevis (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/sep/24/bananas-litter-hikers-mountains-scotland).

Not sure what this means for an environment like the Moab desert, which is quite dry and relatively free of microbes, but I'd say it's probably going to be there for a pretty long time.

Yes, peels are simply an eyesore they biodegrade in under two years. The eyesore can be avoided by simply tossing the peel where others can't see it, yes?

Tradiban wrote:

Yes, peels are simply an eyesore they biodegrade in under two years. The eyesore can be avoided by simply tossing the peel where others can't see it, yes?

The eyesore can be avoided, but it is only one of the problems. Because it is a non-native species to most of these areas, the banana peels can harm local fauna that might consume it. They also produce a pretty nasty smell as they decompose, so they may be noticed even if they are left unseen (if not the smell, the flies and other critters it attracts may still give them away). I also don't trust people to be responsible enough to toss banana peels out of the way. Most people are lazy a-holes and will toss their banana peel wherever it's convenient for them (e.g. the banana peel in Castleton, Ben Nevis, most third world countries, etc.).

I mean, people have been posting a lot of reasons why you should not do this. What are your reasons for doing it in the first place? Laziness? Assholishness? Stubbornness? Do those really outweigh the drawbacks caused by this type of littering?

I'm no envrionmental nut and won't try to convinve you beyond these couple of posts. But this seems like such an easy thing to do that causes you almost no burden. Why not pack it out with you?

Marcelo F wrote:

The eyesore can be avoided, but it is only one of the problems. Because it is a non-native species to most of these areas, the banana peels can harm local fauna that might consume it. They also produce a pretty nasty smell as they decompose, so they may be noticed even if they are left unseen (if not the smell, the flies and other critters it attracts may still give them away). I also don't trust people to be responsible enough to toss banana peels out of the way. Most people are lazy a-holes and will toss their banana peel wherever it's convenient for them (e.g. the banana peel in Castleton, Ben Nevis, most third world countries, etc.).

I mean, people have been posting a lot of reasons why you should not do this. What are your reasons for doing it in the first place? Laziness? Assholishness? Stubbornness? Do those really outweigh the drawbacks caused by this type of littering?

I'm no envrionmental nut and won't try to convinve you beyond these couple of posts. But this seems like such an easy thing to do that causes you almost no burden. Why not pack it out with you?

Do you have any evidence that it will harm the fauna?

As for why I don't pack out my banana peels, I have seen no compelling evidence not to. There's alot of conjecture on this thread and links to websites with conjecture but no actual proof that banana peels harm the environment. Do you believe everything you read on the internet?

Tradiban wrote:

Do you have any evidence that it will harm the fauna?

As for why I don't pack out my banana peels, I have seen no compelling evidence not to. There's alot of conjecture on this thread and links to websites with conjecture but no actual proof that banana peels harm the environment. Do you believe everything you read on the internet?

So, it's assholishness and stubbornness, with a little bit of laziness? Cool, that's all I was curious about. Like I said, I'm already done trying to convince you.

Cheers!