Throwing my banana...

I keep a couple of gallon size zip lock plastic bags in my pack for trash mine and other peoples. I draw the line at other peoples biohazards.

Kate Johnson wrote:

In the same vein as this (people not taking responsibility for their own trash/conversely, taking responsibility for all trash at a crag) what do you find causes you to take ownership of a crag? If it's your local place, do you feel like you should be taking care of it? Why or why not?

 [Explanation: I run trail days for some local crags, and most recently we had a volunteer trail day at a very popular crag where no volunteers showed up -- even as many climbers used the routes we were working at, and asked us about trail days, nobody seemed to be interested in helping, future trail days, etc. It seemed that everyone felt "someone else will show up to the trail day", and nobody actually showed up. Any insight to attracting volunteers would be appreciated!]

Yes we should be helping in anyway we can

Kate have you reached out to your local climbing gyms?  Here in Pa I know the local gyms have and do run very successful clean up and maintenance days 

Kate Johnson wrote:

In the same vein as this (people not taking responsibility for their own trash/conversely, taking responsibility for all trash at a crag) what do you find causes you to take ownership of a crag? If it's your local place, do you feel like you should be taking care of it? Why or why not?

 [Explanation: I run trail days for some local crags, and most recently we had a volunteer trail day at a very popular crag where no volunteers showed up -- even as many climbers used the routes we were working at, and asked us about trail days, nobody seemed to be interested in helping, future trail days, etc. It seemed that everyone felt "someone else will show up to the trail day", and nobody actually showed up. Any insight to attracting volunteers would be appreciated!]

Offer free beer afterwards...

will smith wrote:

I keep a couple of gallon size zip lock plastic bags in my pack for trash mine and other peoples. I draw the line at other peoples biohazards.

It's a well known fact around here that if you pick up 6 pieces of other folks' trash, you will get a piece of gear booty.  Never fails.

Mason Stone wrote:

Mediocre and Eric,

Agreed, consider my question though. And I like this from Mark:

"It's not my job to tell others how to behave, but it is my responsibility to make the crags a better place."

That's what I mean by moral and ethical.

I also pack other people's trash out, this is indirect instruction for people I climb with or near, doesn't take more than a few seconds and very little effort. And, I try to instruct directly, as mentioned above, when lives are at stake.

Ok, serious for a moment... there are a lot of things that are not an individual’s business, just start with any politically combustible topic and see how those not directly affected should care.  Paper is biodegradable too, and it takes a month.  A banana peel takes up to 2 years.  I’m my book, LNT is simple, pack it out or bury it if you REALLY need to leave it.    What would the land manager want?  Are you OK losing climbing access to the area because others left (eventually biodegradable) refuse laying around... now it matters to you, huh?  Peer pressure makes be the only consequence, so I’d say something with a clear conscience.

AaronP wrote:

Do people pack out pee?

I know folks that have packed out pee on big wall climbs.

And everyone should absolutely pack out their shit on walls.

I was really hungry and only packed an apple yesterday so I ate the whole thing including the core. I actually deliberated for a moment regarding whether or not to pack out the stem. Then decided against it. Now I am feeling guilty. 

LNT on the highway question: I toss my apple-cores out the car window and it drives my boyfriend nuts. I would never do this with actual trash of course - but an apple core to me seems innocuous on an interstate road that will quickly beat it down with winter/tires/etc. Thoughts? 

As long as there aren't any roadside crags nearby, I'm not sure I care. 

Is Throwing My Banana already claimed for a route name??? I confess, this has not been the thread I thought it would be from the title. :-(

H.

AaronP wrote:

Do people pack out pee?

In most places, no. In the Black Rock Desert, yes.

I think a lot of LNT ethic is more situational than people are willing to admit. Catholes for crap are common practice among hikers, and on the East Coast where I climb, a cathole would be fine for biodegradeables as well IMHO--biodegradeables in a cathole will decay extremely quickly due to bacteria and fungi in topsoil. But in dry areas, that decay might never happen, and catholes are inappropriate, even for human waste. In the extreme case of the Black Rock Desert, even human urine can damage the very fragile ecosystem.

The real answer, I think, is just to not bring stuff that makes a mess you won't want to carry out. Peeled dried bananas or apples leave no mess, and are lighter to carry anyway.

Ammo wrote:

LNT on the highway question: I toss my apple-cores out the car window and it drives my boyfriend nuts. I would never do this with actual trash of course - but an apple core to me seems innocuous on an interstate road that will quickly beat it down with winter/tires/etc. Thoughts? 

I saw someone discard a banana peel like this on 120 outside of Yosemite last weekend.  I was momentarily outraged.  Also, I think this is punishable by fine.

Ammo wrote:

LNT on the highway question: I toss my apple-cores out the car window and it drives my boyfriend nuts. I would never do this with actual trash of course - but an apple core to me seems innocuous on an interstate road that will quickly beat it down with winter/tires/etc. Thoughts? 

The only real difference between throwing it on the side of the road vs the side of the trail is that it's out of sight, out of mind for you because you're speeding away from the area quickly. I think the thing to do is to recognize that this is also actual trash. I read a study a while back showing that cigarette smokers didn't think of cigarette butts as "actual trash", and so constantly threw them on the ground while firmly believing they never litter. It's pretty simple to pack out what you pack in, no matter what. 

David Kerkeslager wrote:

I think a lot of LNT ethic is more situational than people are willing to admit. 

I totally agree.  Some folks get really dogmatic about LNT and don't contextualize individual decisions.  That said, I understand that having an established set of guiding principles may make decisions easier for people.  The problem arises when they become condescending, self-righteous jerks who call-out rather than discuss and educate.

Ammo wrote:

LNT on the highway question: I toss my apple-cores out the car window and it drives my boyfriend nuts. I would never do this with actual trash of course - but an apple core to me seems innocuous on an interstate road that will quickly beat it down with winter/tires/etc. Thoughts? 

Ed Abbey would be proud: https://books.google.com.vn/books?id=SzVKF5634aUC&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=heyduke+beer+cans&source=bl&ots=y3F684Sfi1&sig=rG_g6Jwssr6ffKsCTTqVR3rxTH8&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=heyduke%20beer%20cans&f=false

Banana peels and apple cores should be packed out, wrapped in plastic garbage bags, and deposited in landfills. That's what nature wants.

Landfills are the "plastic mines of the future".............eventually we'll run out of everything, oil included, when we do patagucci can dig up all that sweet plastic goodness and turn it into $300 jackets......... ;)

John Barritt wrote:

Landfills are the "plastic mines of the future".............eventually we'll run out of everything, oil included, when we do patagucci can dig up all that sweet plastic goodness and turn it into $300 jackets......... ;)

reminds me of Riddley Walker

I throw my banana peels in my backyard. they are never there the next morning. something appreciates my effort.