Childfree because I don't want to fuck up my climbing; husband not happy

La Momoface wrote:

Link please, I need this...

Don't do that to Beanie!

I was thinking of doing it to Nugget von Evilkat. 

La Momoface wrote:

Link please, I need this...

THANK GOD its not real. Shasta would not be pleased.

Having kids has been the most amazing part of my life. Way cooler than ticking those 5.13s. Has family life cost me climbing time? For sure... and I'll get over that someday. I'm now pushing 40, I struggle to fit consistent activity into a complicated schedule, and my body is showing hints of what will inevitable beat me with age. 

I remember fondly time I spent, twenty years ago, completely obsessed over climbing. That time was wonderful. But, I also imagine myself in another 20 years, when there's no point even pretending I could get back into top climbing condition.Will I then regret giving much of my 30's and 40's for these incredible children? There's no chance. If, on the other hand, I had been more self-absorbed (a tendency to which I'm inclined) and found myself at 60 without these beautiful kids… alone… That's the definition hell. "Family life provides an ideal setting for overcoming any tendency to be selfish or self-centered." I wouldn't trade them for anything. 

It sounds like you're 7 or 8 years younger than me, and I'm sure there are a hundred other differences between us. Bottom line is that preferences and priorities change over time. Fixating on any single ideal becomes less and less feasible past some point in your 20s… and life seems to invariable involve more compromise, and even submission. That's a good thing. It's called maturity. And it opens us to things that are bigger, longer lasting, and more beautiful than just you, or just me. 

Regarding climbing friend... I've moved several hundred miles from where I grew up, but occasionally still see some of my best climbing friends, from the good old days. It's interesting to me that some of them are remarkably unchanged from how they were 20 years ago, while others have changed completely. I like to think I'm somewhere in the middle. 

You'll probably look like vine ripened shit in 15-20 anyway. Might as well have an insolent little ropegun to rub in your impending slog to decrepitude?

Or how about when you shred your tendons and can't rely on your burgeoning climberhood for that ego boost and all your climbing buds are all "see ya"?

Don't have a kid though, it's not for the faint of heart.

I wasn't going to join the fray but it seems like a pretty heavily male response to Jane's question so I'll share a childless woman's 2 cents: I came to climbing at 40 and it's what helped save my life on two counts. I was reeling from my guy of 21 years leaving me and I was newly sober so I needed something to focus on to maintain my sobriety and sanity. I was a talented intermediate climber out of the gate and that helped me reset to a good and happy place. I hadn't had kids up to that point because "he didn't want to" but the reality is I didn't want to be Mom 24/7. I love kids and am blessed to hang with some super little people but when I go home I want peace. That's me and I am good with that.

If you aren't 100% on board with having kids and the changes to your body and lifestyle don't do it. Have a heart to heart with your husband and ask why he wants a family. Maybe he simply bought into the hype or, maybe this is really important to him. You don't get to decide for him, nor he for you, on this subject.  I know many happy parents and many unhappy ones. You as a couple have to determine if you are aligned regarding this life-changing decision.

All of that said, if you do move to a pro kids position it can be fun for the whole family, as well as the rest of us at the crag. Earlier this year I saw a little girl fall flat on her face at the crag. Her body actually made a whumping sound. Mom was belaying Dad on TR and the whole thing was managed perfectly by Mom without her moving from her belay stance. Awesome little family and, I have to say, the scene made me wonder if I could have done the kid thing. So, it's possible to have kids at the crag but the bigger question is will you commit to this person you bring into the world forever?  Good luck and think really hard on this one.

Listening to people with kids talk about how great it is to have kids is like listening to an alcoholic trying to convince you to drink when you're sober. Don't try to get us to validate your poor life choices by joining you. 

Thank god I have one honest friend with kids that tells me how much it ruins your life. 

Also, having kids because you're worried about being alone when you get old is a terrible reason to have kids. 

Sounds like you’re suffering from confirmation bias.

Ted Pinson wrote:

Sounds like you’re suffering from confirmation bias.

I would argue it's the parents that are. 

They remember how cute it was when little Johnny used the big boy toilet (and flushed it too!) but forget all the times his shit ended up in their hair. 

I'll take your husband ! What a gem!

Finding all the discussion of selfishness (or not) interesting.  For what it's worth, In the history of Christianity, marriage has been viewed as one way of becoming a more perfect human being through the challenges marriage presents to both parties' inherent selfishness-- one of these challenges (in addition to the spouse) being children, the (in most cases) natural fruit of marriage.  Monasticism or martyrdom were the two other options available.  Not trying to force anyone into this point of view but just offering it as food for thought.

As to the OP's request for MP folks' experience with kids and climbing: (1) got into climbing pre-kids; (2) pretty much couldn't break through 5.9 despite continuing to climb; (3) would take kids and wife with me on climbing trips from time to time, and they'd climb with me but never caught the bug; (4) three years ago, my son caught the bug-- he's 18 now, climbs in the .12s, has pushed me into climbing in the .11s, is my preferred climbing partner, and just returned from a week-long trip to Chamonix last month with him that was indescribably awesome.  In a nutshell, having at least one child who loves climbing has taken my climbing to a level it didn't get to without him.  My experience is no guarantee of any other having the same experience.

Rob Gordon wrote:

I would argue it's the parents that are. 

They remember how cute it was when little Johnny used the big boy toilet (and flushed it too!) but forget all the times his shit ended up in their hair. 

That’s just biology.  Most complex organisms are preprogrammed to care for their young, which means we’re loaded with weird triggers like that which have prevented most parents from eating or abandoning their young (and eventually dooming the race), which would be the temptation whenever things get rough.

In your case, you assume that all parents are secretly miserable and therefore only believe the one parent who says they are, thus cherry picking the data that support your narrative (confirmation bias).

Don’t get me wrong, parenthood is rough and there are definitely days where I’m tempted to buy a van and drive out West with my middle finger in the air...but I don’t because I know that I couldn’t live without my family.  Are there sacrifices you have to make?  Absolutely.  Is it all sunshine and gum balls?  Absolutely not.  Is it something I think everyone should do and judge others for not doing?  Hell no. Do I personally feel it was worth it?  Absolutely.

Pretending any of us know how our future selves would feel about life choices like having kids or not having kids is just a delusion. You just have no idea until it happens. Either path is fine or not, depending on how you want to spin it. That said you can always postpone kids until you are in your forties, so when your climbing performance starts to decline you can raise a kid and tell them how great you were back in the daaaaaaaay.

Not everyone is meant to have kids. Sheesh. This world is severely overpopulated. I say go for the child-free life if you want it. With one life to live, why spend the best years of our physical prowess fucking babysitting? I personally chose to work hard with the guys in a national park, a life of adventure and freedom. No regrets, still doing it every day, no kids asking for handouts or living in our basement. (-: Hiking and scrambling with the dogs. Life is sweet.

When was OPs last appearance?

People are falling hard for the troll bait on this one..

Simon W wrote:

When was OPs last appearance?

People are falling hard for the troll bait on this one..

Most of us know it's a troll, but the question posed is worth discussing. 

Simon W wrote:

When was OPs last appearance?

People are falling hard for the troll bait on this one..

If you were the OP, would you have wanted to respond to all the vitriol and pointless asshollery in this thread? For all you know, the OP is still reading. She got what she was looking for from this thread (and/or learned the lesson of not asking a bunch of internet stranger guys for their opinion).

And I am more sure now than I was earlier that the OP is likely someone who is a regular member of the forum who didn't want to ask under her real name, possibly anticipating this shit.

I don't think it was a troll.  It is the type of question that many women would have, and the sort that someone might want to ask the climbing community anonymously and sign up for an mp.com account.  

And as Stich said, even if it's a troll it's still a question worth discussing, and it's definitely prompting a lot of the sexism and double standards that many users here hold.

People grow apart all the time. No one gets married with this in mind, but it happens. Get divorced now so you both can find someone who shares your views. You will both be happier. Or don't. Whatever.

Lena chita wrote:

If you were the OP, would you have wanted to respond to all the vitriol and pointless asshollery in this thread? For all you know, the OP is still reading. She got what she was looking for from this thread (and/or learned the lesson of not asking a bunch of internet stranger guys for their opinion).

And I am more sure now than I was earlier that the OP is likely someone who is a regular member of the forum who didn't want to ask under her real name, possibly anticipating this shit.

Am I missing something here?

What vitriol?

My impression of the advice so far-

talk to your husband

don't have a baby if you don't want kids

adopt if it's just the pregnancy that is the problem (albeit adopting isn't cheap)

if having kids is a marital deal breaker, then it's time for a divorce

pregnancy has definite body impacts but most are temporary and reversible

post-baby climbing time varies from a lot less to more than ever, although usually decreased for at least a while.

A lot of posts from parents about how worthwhile parenthood is, despite being type 2 fun.

Posts from non-parents about their satisfaction with their life choices. (Although seeming a little defensive, perhaps understandably so.)

I admit I can't read John Kelly's posts, so I don't know what he is saying. Or care.