Black Diamond ATC Pilot's out, rep confirmed shipping tomorrow.

ViperScale wrote:

Why use this over an existing gri-gri or whatever. It looks like it takes up more space. You still can't rappel off it so like a gri-gri you would still require a real atc (yes I know you can setup rappels other ways). Also assuming you can't hook it up and belay up without redirecting off yourself.

Because is is less than 1/2 the price and does the same thing.

cdec wrote:

Because is is less than 1/2 the price and does the same thing.

Doesn't belay up like a gri-gri (from the looks of it can't confirm this) so no it doesn't do the same. Well the only thing I use my gri-gri for is multi pitch belaying up off the anchor.

ViperScale wrote:

Why use this over an existing gri-gri or whatever. It looks like it takes up more space. You still can't rappel off it so like a gri-gri you would still require a real atc (yes I know you can setup rappels other ways). Also assuming you can't hook it up and belay up without redirecting off yourself.

I don't see the problem...

I carry a GRI GRI, generally for top rope or when belaying on a project or as a top belay, a Jul 2 for sport leading because I find it has the best feeding of slack, and a ATC for rappeling 

In case you drop one you still have options, each device has particular good uses

Jef Anstey wrote:

I don't see the problem...

I carry a GRI GRI, generally for top rope or when belaying on a project or as a top belay, a Jul 2 for sport leading because I find it has the best feeding of slack, and a ATC for rappeling 

In case you drop one you still have options, each device has particular good uses

That was my point on multi pitch I take an ATC-Guide and GRI GRI. ATC-Guide can belay up, belay from the top off anchor, rappel. GRI GRI can belay up, belay from the top off anchor. Why would I want a device that can only belay up (yes I know it could belay from the top too but not off the anchor).

ViperScale wrote:

That was my point on multi pitch I take an ATC-Guide and GRI GRI. ATC-Guide can belay up, belay from the top off anchor, rappel. GRI GRI can belay up, belay from the top off anchor. Why would I want a device that can only belay up (yes I know it could belay from the top too but not off the anchor).

Because it functions better or is safer or more efficient for the particular task.

I find having to manage lockup when trying to feed slack with an ATC to be tough. I similarly find the GRIGRI to be clumsy, a lot more easy to fumble. I find this style of "thumb lift and feed" tubes (smart, Jul, pilot etc) the absolute easier and safest for me to belay lead on

So while it's not *necessary* I do carry 3 devices in my gear, I might or might not bring 1 or 2 on the wall at a particular time

ViperScale wrote:

Doesn't belay up like a gri-gri (from the looks of it can't confirm this) so no it doesn't do the same. Well the only thing I use my gri-gri for is multi pitch belaying up off the anchor.

I can confirm you can't belay up a second, it won't engage upside-down. 

I'm replacing my grigri with this, and keeping my ATC-Guide

Nick Drake wrote:

Have you used both on skinnier ropes, 9.0-9.5? 

I used a mega jul in the past and a jul2, noticed there was far less brake assistance on skinny ropes with the jul 2, really only found it ok for 9.6 and above ropes with heavier climbers.. Both devices were used with the edelrid strike biner. 

I've only used it on 9.5 ropes and larger.  

From the BD site note that it states: "single-pitch projecting burns less tiring for the belayer and more secure for the climber." The device is not intended for multipitch. Its stand out function is for single pitch projecting. 

"DESCRIPTION

An all-new geometry assisted braking device, the ATC Pilot introduces a system that provides an added level of security to your belay, while allowing for smooth rope payout.

The lightweight Black Diamond ATC Pilot represents an advance in technology for the world of assisted braking devices. Providing an added level of security to your belay, the ATC Pilot threads similarly to other tubular belay devices and accommodates ropes from 8.7-10.5mm. The durable steel braking surface has no moving parts, and the smooth and secure control allows for gradual lowering. With an easy rope payout, the ATC Pilot makes single-pitch projecting burns less tiring for the belayer and more secure for the climber.

• Accommodates ropes from 8.7-10.5
• Provides an added level of security to single pitch belays
• Smooth rope payout
• Controlled lowering
• Steel construction
• Ergonomic, non-slip surface
• Single rope use"

Curious to those who have actually used it. Does it HOLD even if you take your brake hand off, like a Grigri does? Or does "assisted" just mean it helps you more than an ATC.

AndrewArroz wrote:

Curious to those who have actually used it. Does it HOLD even if you take your brake hand off, like a Grigri does? Or does "assisted" just mean it helps you more than an ATC.

The Jul 2 and mega Jul lock off on most ropes.

I assume this would be the same for the pilot, it appears to be incredibly similar

that guy named seb wrote:

False alarm it would appear, looks shitty anyway.

Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine. Can you elaborate on your concerns a bit?

Just got mine today from black diamond. Looks like gym time fer me tonight

AndrewArroz wrote:

Curious to those who have actually used it. Does it HOLD even if you take your brake hand off, like a Grigri does? Or does "assisted" just mean it helps you more than an ATC.

I've used it. It'll actually hold ropes assuming you're using an hms/pearabiner. Rope starts to slip a little at and under 8.7mm 

Used it in the gym last night but only for TR not for lead. Using fat gym ropes that were damp from condensation and thinner gym ropes that were stiff. 

Didn't always catch with the thicker ropes (prob 10.5 or so) , seemed to be better with the thinner stiff ropes (prob 10.1 or so) 

Annoying click sound when you're belaying and pulling the rope to the breaking position (at least they didn't name it after this click) 

Works like it's supposed to and didn't see any real pain points in it's normal usage. 

I'm less pleased with some of the carabiner limitations as displayed in the provided instructions (see below)

I've no opinion on it just yet as I need to lead belay with it to decide if it goes into my rando belay device storage box or stays in my gym bag. 

That's a LOT of carabiner restrictions. A little troubling that if a normal pear turns over on you it's a problem.

AndrewArroz wrote:

That's a LOT of carabiner restrictions. A little troubling that if a normal pear turns over on you it's a problem.

No different than a megajul or smart. 

Got the Pilot yesterday, been using it in the gym for lead climbing since. Some notes:

1. It's actually pretty light. The body is made out of plastic, while the business end is made of steel. When you attach it to a carabiner you get kind of a "hollow cowbell" sound as it jangles around. It sounds a little "cheap"? Kinda would have rathered the whole body be steel since you probably aren't bringing this guy up any muiltipitches or anything.
2. The brake assist is clear, but isn't 100%. A hand needs to be on the brake line, or it will slip a bit. That being said, it barely requires any force at all to lock up when a hand is on the brake line... which it should be anyway.
3. Lowering is a joy. So much fun. The whole device is super comfortable to hold and there's a lot of lowering speed control.
4. Paying out slack is a joy. Super easy with the "catch the thumb" movement. Waaay easier than a grigri, a lot more control. Hard to describe, but this is actually my favorite thing about the pilot.

Overall, it's a great device and I'll be using it in the gym and for sport climbing from now on. Grigri will probably stay on the shelf from now on! Gotta say, Black Diamond did a great job.

Ben Schuldt wrote:

Why on earth does this cost $45? I get that it is steel but for a single channel assist-lock they're asking quite a lot. $35 seems about right at release and then pick it up on sale for $25-30 for something like this.

Dude coming from the cycling world as I have, I will never complain about climbing gear pricing. Shit is cheap!