Herniated/Slipped disc advice

Hi climbers,

I’m looking for some help and motivation to have a chance at getting back to climbing. My problem is back injury (herniated discs L4, L5) that happened three years ago. I have been to numerous doctors and last one (specialist for back) said, that for now I can do whatever I want, just to go slowly till my limitations (one disc is broken and dried up, so it can’t go back; other one still has gelatine around). Before injury my first love was climbing and must confess that after this problem I had fallen in depression. So now I am searching for people that have problems like me and can still climb…

What kind of regime/exercises do you do and what are limitations at climbing? Any tip would be great help!

Thank you so much.

It sounds like one of your discs is worse than mine was, but I understand where your at completely, though I had mine done before I started climbing.  The mental portion is the side that is the toughest.  I was like you and tried everything for years to try and avoid surgery.  

As far as exercises, in the beginning just walking outside helps.  That was what I was instructed to do.  You have to give the surgery site time to heal, and re-injury is most likely to occur in those first couple of months.  I started by walking in my neighborhood, then when I could drive got back to my favorite hiking trails.

I won't lie, everyone's recovery is different, I went back to work two months after, but should have waited longer.  I think I could of been back to as close to 100% sooner.  I went back to heavy weight lifting a year after my surgery, even deadlifts, so I consider that a success.  When I started climbing I even boulder, and have dropped 10+ feet from the top of some boulder problems onto the mats without a problem.  I won't boulder outside though as I don't have enough pads to make dropping that far a non concern.

My best advice is to follow the doctors instructions to the letter, a lot of people rush back to activity and end up doing more damage.

Here's a thread with others experiences also

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/108659942/l4-l5-bulged-disc-right-side-and-micro-discectomy-surgery

Wait and rest .. Do not get an op.

Operation at the moment is not my option, as I would have disc fusion. I don't have such problems as previous years, but towards climbing I still have fear of hurting myself...

Michael Justin wrote:

towards climbing I still have fear of hurting myself...

Well your fear is an interesting emotion to learn to manage.

But I thought you said that the most knowledgeable doctor told you:
"for now I can do whatever I want, just to go slowly"

So do you want to climb? or not?

Ken

Joe Pilates is your friend ... see him at least once a week. My doc told me 2x would be better.

Hey Michael,

I feel your pain! I had surgery to repair L4/L5 rupture three years ago. I had fought chronic back problems for almost a decade before it took a dramatic turn for the worse. Then it took six months of munching painkillers as if they were Pez and 8 weeks of failed PT to get my insurance company to okay the surgery. After the surgery, I took a couple Advil for a couple days and never looked back. My results were excellent. That said, through the process, I heard many stories of spine surgery with poor results. It seems to help some people, make no difference for others, and exacerbate the problem for still others. My takeaway is to avoid surgery if at all possible, but to accept it with hope when necessary. If your mental health is suffering, it might be time to explore more invasive options?

Before surgery, PTs and docs encouraged me to focus on stretching and strengthening -- specifically, core exercises and piriformis stretches (like "pigeon pose"). For me, both pilates and yoga seemed like good options (but didn't end up completely fixing the problem...). Swimming was also good, and I hate swimming! 

I'm so sorry you're suffering. No other way to say it: Back problems f*cking suck.

I'm in the same boat here, with (less advanced) degenerative L4-5 spondylolisthesis and stenosis originally due to an old motorcycle accident. I started having symptoms ~ a year ago and by winter it was debilitating. There were times when I couldn't weight my left leg to stand up and I had to resort to prescription NSAIDs. I tried both a cortisone epidural and radiofrequency ablation with no change in symptoms. I was told that a spinal fusion was my final option, but after reviewing the clinical data found that there isn't evidence to support its use over conservative treatments (e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23820296).  Spinal surgery is a huge revenue generator (especially in the States), btw.

Since then I've been doing some of the PT exercises Garth mentioned, using a TENS unit, and minimizing the time I sit. It has improved and I now mountain bike, hike, climb and trail run, albeit with some occasional discomfort and naproxen.  I'm still not back to where I was climbing-wise before this all started, but I have been able to return to doing death marches (up to ~40 miles).  Stick with the PT, get a TENS unit and standing desk, and hang in there.  There is some older clinical data to support temporary relief from inversion therapy; I had leftover FSA $ and just recently got an inversion table to try it out. Good luck!

to add to all the other good advice...  buy an inversion chair (not table!) to assist in recovery!    

I had a herniated disk as well... twice now. It definitely sucks. The 2nd time I started going to a chiropractor and the immediate relief was amazing. I would absolutely recommend going to a chiropractor a few times to get the spine loosened up and freely moving again. Other than that, walking was a great way to stay loose and flexible as well. 

I did a bunch of concrete work around the house last weekend and definitely strained my back (not re-herniated though) and I bought one of those foam rollers that you lay on the floor on. Seems to be doing the trick to massage the back muscles and release some of the tension. 

Other than that, just take it slow and try to remember to use good technique/posture. If you feel pain obviously stop and don't push it any further. It's not worth re-injuring and being floored again. 

Stupid discs right? 6 years ago my L5 S1 was bulged out so bad that it was pinching my siatic nerve, and making my left leg dead, like literally had almost no feeling drag leg dead. Tried numerous things suggested by both chiropractors and DO docs to avoid surgery. It was a horrible 5 months leading up to the surgery, to be done by a great neurosurgeon. When surgery day came, my supposed 1 hours surgery turned into a 4 and a half hour ordeal due to the disc literally exploding when the surgeon touched it, he pulled 38 pieces of broken disc out of my spine. The recovery was an agonizing 6 months of not allowed to do anything, with the fear that if I was injured again, it would be a spinal fusion this time. Which is still a fear I carry to this day, so totally get that you don't want to push it. However, if you find a good stretch/yoga routine that really focuses on your lower back and core, and consistently DO IT, it will slowly build guarding muscles that will help to support and protect it from further injury. 

So now, 6 years later, I climb 2 to 3 days a week, everything from boulder V6, to 5.11 trad/sport, and WI5 ice. I have days that I get that familiar stab in my back, just means pushed too far and need to back off for a few days. And there is some residual damage to my nerves, like I can't do a full weight heal hook with my left leg or it will instantly cramp and go numb, and I did have to do a lot of strength rebuilding in my left leg because it was noticeably weaker, but haven't noticed that at all this year.

But, I think climbing in general is good for your back, help stretch it and build some good guard muscles, just listen to your body and don't push it past what it can take. And watch the landings if you boulder, that sudden stop is not so good on the discs, think of your spine as a shock absorber, and the discs keep the vertebrae from hitting each other.

Good luck

I've done all the above, pilates, yoga, foam roller etc... It does sorta help, because your strengthening all the muscles around the injury, which helps support it... but it's not a cure all. So, I'm all ears on this thread.  I've had my injury for over 5 years now and once or twice a year, no matter how good of shape my core is in.... it'll just go "out". It generally takes several days to weeks to recover enough that I can stand straight. About a month before I feel strong again. As a matter of fact , as I'm typing this I'm wearing a cheap drugstore back brace at my desk to help recover correctly from last episode. The funny thing is I can do something physically hardcore like jumping on a snowboard and it won't go out... but then I bend down to tie my shoe and can't stand back up :/

edit: I also get the cramp/dead leg a lot 

every thread should be commenting on stretching.  tight muscles will pull on bones and pinch nerves.  working muscles will make them tighter, which is why it's important to stretch with those exercises.

the inversion chair, which you can now get for a decent one for 250, does amazing stretching (same affect as weighted traction at a chiro, except you are using gravity/body weight).  it stretches hard to reach muscles, likes the ones that connect the vertebrae (interspinale muscles?)...  the inversion also allows fluid to seep back into the discs.

of all stretches i do for back, the one i recommend the most (from personal experience) is "legs up the wall".  15-30 MINUTES of it, read a book or something.  
do a google search find pics...lay down, legs up the wall, straight if you can, with butt on the wall or close as possible..
after awhile, cross one leg over hte other, placing your ankle on your knee,, then bend straight leg towards you.. then switch legs.  this will create an awesome deep stretch, and it stretches so many great muscles, namely the piriformis.  that is a critical hip flexor, and if tight, will contribute to back pain.  and having flexible hip flexors lets you high step higher :)

the legs up the wall stretch is also great to do in bed, and is also really good for circulation and to help with insomnia.

Hi everybody, first apologies for late replay as I had problems with posting. 

Many thanks for all suggestions, experiences as they all give a wider picture to problem and give also more wider window of solutions. I will definitly try some things and see what is good for me or what not. Every body is different and some exercises will do good for someone and some won't.

Keep posting so we hear other experiences and solutions. We must listen to our body and don't push it - if we knew that before, right? :)

Great advice from all above.  Personally, remedies that have helped me the most have been: adequate/regular sleep, plenty of water consumption, extended pigeon poses, and planks, and emotional/psych awareness and health.  All of these have required a significant amount of attention and all seem to be just as important as the next to integrate into life.  I empathize with anyone suffering from back pain.  The one component that I was ignoring was the emotional/psych health part.  All practitioners (chiro, PT, acupuncture, massage, ect) that I received help from, all the asked: "Are you unsettled?"