Claiming a TR?

I had a group TRing in Peter's Kill, and talked to a guy who said the etiquette for claiming a route is to go to the base to claim, either by leaving some stuff or a person. Then to go set up the line after this. I don't TR often, so I guess I never picked up a formal etiquette lesson about this, and just assumed that setting up the anchor is the claim of the route. Obviously you don't drop a line on a lead party, but it made sense to me that the party ready to climb is the party with the claim to the route. Thoughts on this?

If you're concerned that another party will start up the climb while you are setting up a top rope, leaving someone at the base is a good idea. Normally, you wouldn't need more than one person to set up the top rope, so it's good to have your partner below to let other parties know the route is occupied. Think of your partner as the watchdog.

Edit: I've heard people suggest that a party leading a route gets priority over topropers, but I won't buy that. You get there first, it's your route (provided you're actually climbing it immediately, and not parking under it to eat lunch first).

Also, don't drop a rope on it to "reserve" it to climb later. That's just rude.

So then what if the other party also wants to TR? The situation here was that I got to the top to set up the anchor, while another party was at the base of the route. Which group has claim to the route in this case?

Where was your partner? Up top with you?

If they wanted to TR it also, and you were up top already, you were first.

Seems like you could yell down to them or otherwise work it out.

Did this turn nasty?

Cool, that's what I thought. Partner was up top with me. We were in yelling distance and so we talked and the guy was reasonable. He set up an adjacent route instead and everyone was happy.

I was just looking for confirmation about where you go to be "first" on a route (e.g. the top or the base) in the case of 2 TR parties for future reference. Thanks!

Depends on the crag. One of ours you park at the top so walking all the way down to setup a top rope would be stupid, you normally setup top rope and than rap down. At the same time you can trad climb alot of these routes so clearly you want to check if someone is in the process of starting that before you throw a rope off. At our crag most people don't mind sharing ropes with other in alot of the areas so we sometimes may setup 3-4 ropes and if anyone comes by we tell them feel free to use them if you want while we are doing other things.

If you have 2 groups 1 at the base and 1 at the top and both plan to setup top rope I think the one at the top would get the route because they are alot closer to starting than someone who has to walk all the way up. As someone said though if you got 1 at the top wanting to setup a top rope and 1 at the base setting up to lead the route than the group at the base generally would get the route.

climbing friend,

you please do not fail at life and TR, unless perhaps you are rehearsing moves on cutting edge death fall X gear route! especially not in group of peoplesez!

Calvin Lee wrote:

I had a group TRing in Peter's Kill, and talked to a guy who said the etiquette for claiming a route is to go to the base to claim, either by leaving some stuff or a person. Then to go set up the line after this. I don't TR often, so I guess I never picked up a formal etiquette lesson about this, and just assumed that setting up the anchor is the claim of the route. Obviously you don't drop a line on a lead party, but it made sense to me that the party ready to climb is the party with the claim to the route. Thoughts on this?

That's more just the natural order of things in the North East... trail to base of crag, drop all your heavy gear, head up top, setup anchor and drop the rope. Done. 

Calling it an etiquette thing is a little odd, as it's neither polite nor impolite. It just is. If you're up top setting up a rope and someone drops their gear at the base not realizing you're already there, just tell lean over the edge and say you're already there setting up a TR. If they say they want to lead it, drop your rope, take a climb and then tell them they're welcome to run up it after you. Take turns... dont hog the route, that would be etiquette.

If someone shows up and rudely demands they should go before you even though you were there first and are setting up your anchor, I'd give them the good ol' NY, GFY. It's situationally dependent though... 

Aleks Zebastian wrote:

climbing friend,

you please do not fail at life and TR, unless perhaps you are rehearsing moves on cutting edge death fall X gear route! especially not in group of peoplesez!

Naaaaah, dude. TR is the closest thing mortals can get to free soloing.

Morgan Patterson wrote:

Calling it an etiquette thing is a little odd, as it's neither polite nor impolite. It just is. If you're up top setting up a rope and someone drops their gear at the base not realizing you're already there, just tell lean over the edge and say you're already there setting up a TR.

Yeah, I guess I meant procedure, not etiquette (I had the word on my mind from the "edicate" thread). And yup, exactly what happened here. Thanks for all the answers, people!

FrankPS wrote:

Edit: I've heard people suggest that a party leading a route gets priority over topropers, but I won't buy that. You get there first, it's your route (provided you're actually climbing it immediately, and not parking under it to eat lunch first).

You're missing a key point: lead party gets to put aside the TR rope or pulls and resets it for the TR party if the TR party is there for a long time running laps or with a lot of climbers. It's not meant to allow a party of 2 to lead it over a party of 2 TRing the route.

Marc801 C wrote:

You're missing a key point: lead party gets to put aside the TR rope or pulls and resets it for the TR party if the TR party is there for a long time running laps or with a lot of climbers. It's not meant to allow a party of 2 to lead it over a party of 2 TRing the route.

I think Morgan covered that:

If they say they want to lead it, drop your rope, take a climb and then tell them they're welcome to run up it after you. Take turns... dont hog the route, that would be etiquette.

We've always "deferred" to a leading group to allow them to lead a route before setting up a TR.  Usually one lead (maybe two) and they pull the rope before we sit on a route for a while.  Quite often we'll trade ropes with other TR groups as well to maximize routes and fun as long as their anchor isn't sketch.

I've seen some funny business at a crag.  People dropping TR ropes down on us while leading.  I had one guy step in front of me and start leading a route while I was standing in front of it finishing racking up (guess I wasn't drawing up fast enough for him).

We've always made it a big point to SHARE the crag. Do a couple laps and move on if it's busy. Nothing I hate worse than a group or a guiding group spider webbing a crag and monopolizing the entire face. 

JSH wrote:

I rarely TR, but I think leaving something at the base is good to let someone know you're somewhere above about to drop a rope on it.

Also wanted to say -- thanks for bringing your TR group to Peterskill; that's a very appropriate place to go TR.  I'm very, very tired of TR groups in other places.

Sounds like you're getting tired of the Gunks?

When TR soloing, I just keep my fingers crossed and hurry up in getting to the top, and then watch for arriving groups as I set up.  In any other situation, why not just leave one member of the party at the base?  

Joshua B. wrote:

When TR soloing, I just keep my fingers crossed and hurry up in getting to the top, and then watch for arriving groups as I set up.  In any other situation, why not just leave one member of the party at the base?  

In this particular situation, I was the one person in the group who knew where everything was, and the trail we took goes by the top first, then down to the base. I didn't want to lose people, so I took them with me-- otherwise I'd normally send the rest of the group to the base

The long time etiquette is that the TR should defer to someone leading the route--leading is the more committing climb and takes precedence. May be less of an issue at sport cliffs. If I got to a rock climb I wanted to lead and found a TR party that didn't get it, I probably would not get aggressive about it but I would comment about effing a holes as I moved on.

On ice the lead takes precedence--period--and I would get in a TR party's face. Why should someone who wants to lead have to wait around while a bunch of gumbies (it's almost always gumbies--TRing ice is about as pointless as it gets) chop the crap out of the line?

If both groups are TRing, why does it even matter? Whoever was last to the top, just build an anchor on the next climb down and share ropes - you get twice as many climbs with half as much set up and another set of eyes checking your anchor. Seems like a win-win.

Jim Corbett wrote:

The long time etiquette is that the TR should defer to someone leading the route--leading is the more committing climb and takes precedence. May be less of an issue at sport cliffs. If I got to a rock climb I wanted to lead and found a TR party that didn't get it, I probably would not get aggressive about it but I would comment about effing a holes as I moved on.

So instead of a polite face to face conversation to work something out, you decide to take the passive-agressive route? You might want to reconsider who the "effing a holes" are.

Marc801 C wrote:

So instead of a polite face to face conversation to work something out, you decide to take the passive-agressive route? You might want to reconsider who the "effing a holes" are.

OK, forgive my shorthand. Implicit in the statement.'and found a TR party that didn't get it' is that you gave the party a chance TO get it, i.e. after a conversation which, in the example case, was not productive. It's the internet, and I don't really have time to enunciate every detail. And I'm not typically very passive when I get aggressive, you could be projecting.

At least in southern California, its first come first serve but most people share to maximize climbing on multiple routes. As for what style of climbing who cares we all are in it for the same thing the fun when you lose that part I feel bad for you just enjoy your time in nature and stop rushing