Nervous about multi-pitch with small belayer

I'd like to do some multi-pitch with my belayer (gf) who is  a lot smaller than I - 195lbs verses 95lbs. 

I've stayed away because I can't always guarantee a piece to anchor her down against upward pull at every belay. I'm nervous about smashing her into the wall if I take a decent fall or any fall right off the anchor before I get a piece in. I know I could lower her 10ft below the anchor but that would almost always put her in an uncomfortable position

Can I get some thoughts from climbers who outweigh their partners by 2X and have taken sizeable falls on a muti-pitch or falls right off the anchor at near FF2?

Your concerns are totally valid, so, no offense, but can she come on and weigh in? It would be great to have her in on this conversation.

The light belayer may have already been thinking about this, and perhaps have some opinions/suggestions.

I'm the light partner, usually, and I will enjoy hearing what you two work out!

How is it working on single pitch? Have you considered buying an ohm?

Best, Helen

Edit to add, I'm about 130 and have belayed up to about 210, on a trad lead outside, maybe a bit heavier on a top rope in the gym. Up to 170-180ish I find doable, but it is very circumstantial, and you have to think it through and talk it out each time. Make a plan together, just as we often do in climbing.

She can attach her belay device directly to the anchor. This is very common in Europe and in several anchor videos.  Of course the anchor needs to be good for an upward pull.  If you cannot build an anchor good for an upward pull, stick to single pitch. 

Brian morin wrote:

I've stayed away because I can't always guarantee a piece to anchor her down against upward pull at every belay. 

If you need an anchor that protects against upward pull (not only a consideration for belayer/climber weight discrepancies), then that needs to be part of your requirement when looking for a place to build an anchor. Where and how you build your anchor is up to you, you don't build the anchor independent of thinking about upward pull, and then consider whether you can add another piece and if you can't, oh well. If you can't build the anchor the way you need to, move on and find a better place to build it. 

Climb some multi-pitch with bolted anchors and set up a belay with a munter hitch (or belay device) directly off the anchor. That way, she won't get yanked at all and you don't have to worry about finding an upward pull piece.

Here is a video.  Especially after minute 7.  Consider using a Munter. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eqZQnCGl24A

Greg D wrote:

She can attach her belay device directly to the anchor. This is very common in Europe and in several anchor videos.  Of course the anchor needs to be good for an upward pull.  If you cannot build an anchor good for an upward pull, stick to single pitch. 

I don't see how this helps. Even if the belay is attached to the master point instead of her belay loop, it still rises and she rises with it since she is also attached to the master point.

Brian morin wrote:

I don't see how this helps. Even if the belay is attached to the master point instead of her belay loop, it still rises and she rises with it since she is also attached to the master point.

Not if the belay is attached to a point that has little extension.  See video.

Brian,

edit* Sorry, I didn't post right away and others already mentioned the fixed point belay. Here are some additional links on the topic:

Association of Canadian Mountain Guides has a video: https://vimeo.com/44869774

AAI has a blog where they experimented with these techniques on gear anchors instead of bolts: http://blog.alpineinstitute.com/2016/11/fixed-point-belay-techniques.html

Will Gadd has a blog post where he discusses the thought process of anchoring: http://willgadd.com/anchor-clipping-2/

Taking into account the ideas from Will Gadd's blog, you could also consider something like the Edelrid Ohm: https://www.edelrid.com/us/sports/sa-accessoires/ohm.html

While this is likely "too heavy to carry" for most people, given the weight difference between you and your girlfriend, perhaps you could justify the 360g. You would just place this on the highest, multi-directional piece of your anchor. You would still have to anchor your belayer or lower her away from the master/focal point.

Obviously climbing conservatively and choosing climbs that are protectable off the belay are good ideas as well. Hope this helps!

She could wear a 100lbs backpack...;-)

For real though, would one of those Edelrid Ohm things work for multipitch trad?

Says "The endless hypothetical situations make recommending the OHM for trad use impossible." here

But why not just place an opposing piece(s) for upward pull as I am assuming in similar manner for people rope soloing (obviously with more than one piece)?

K. Le Douche wrote:

She could wear a 100lbs backpack...;-)

For real though, would one of those Edelrid Ohm things work for multipitch trad?

I'm pretty sure Edelrid only recommends the Ohm for use on a bolt.

...and, if it was used on the first piece of trad gear, that piece would need to be multi directional.

Been multi-pitch trad climbing and leading for 25 years at 98 lbs. Everyone is bigger than me and I have never been slammed into the wall as a result of a heavier leader falling.  I have caught many partners falling on lead that weigh between 145 to 215 lbs.  Put in an extra piece for the upward directional (if you are not confident with one).

What she said^^^^^^ 

Option 2, don't fall. Climb multi-pitch below your limit and it's a non-issue.

Option 3 Let the GF lead................. ;)

well, you should be worried - it can be pretty violent belaying a lot bigger person whipping, not to mention the extra considerations of doing this off the ground.  is this something she is up for?  if she isn't really psyched on it i can only see this going badly.

Maybe I'm missing something. Why is this different than the same issue with single pitch? What do you do to deal with the weight difference there? Has she ever gotten yanked violently into the wall there?

I climb with a partner who weighs about 60 lbs less than me. It's never been a issue. Build a good anchor. 

John Barritt wrote:

What she said^^^^^^ 

Option 2, don't fall. Climb multi-pitch below your limit and it's a non-issue.

Option 3 Let the GF lead................. ;)

Option 4 Find a GF who weights more than you.

AndrewArroz wrote:

for example, how is she going to take it if you are well above a roof, come off, and break her helmet with your shin?  i ask this from personal experience....

Just a question? Why is this woman mostly referred to as the gf? Is she not a climbing partner?

Why is no one talking to the partner? Why isn't she on here, or, what has she suggested doing? Does the OP know how to belay her safely?

Viper, why suggest a heavier gf? Maybe he could lose weight?

John, why say "let the gf lead"? How about "ask your lighter partner to lead"?

You guys should know by now I love and respect all of you. So. This is the tiny subtle stuff that the ladies get all the time. No, it isn't particularly, hugely, important, but it does send a message.

Over and over.

You're my friends, friends say something.

Best, OLH

OP, you've got lots of good stuff on here. 

Thanks, all! These threads help me too, as the light one.

Best, H.

hell no, homey don't play that!