Camp Cassin Bladerunner thoughts?

Currently using Grivel G22's, but looking for something with the monopoint option (I may sell the G22's and use one pair for ice and glacier)

Any immediate thoughts on the CAMP? (I know they are a bit heavy, but so are the Grivels)

Cheers,

I have them for ice and they are great for that. They would suck for glacier use though.

• They don’t collapse, so putting them in a pack is hard.
• They are very heavy compared to a more standard steel or aluminum glacier crampon. 
• Monopoints are not ideal for non-vertical terrain. You could put on the horizontals, but that would just make them heavier. 
• The forefoot points sprawl out, which is great for vertical terrain, but require more attention to not catch on pants while walking. 

Plus, these crampons are expensive enough that you could probably buy two sets, one for vertical and one for galcier, and come out about even. 

You say the G22 are heavy. I believe they are close to the lightest dual point waterfall ice crampon out there, if not the very lightest..

I've been using the Bladrunner mono for ice and mixed for the last 2 seasons. I love them. I like the way the secondary front points interface with the ice along with the mono-point. The fact that they don't collapse is a bit of hassle some times, but not usually a problem. I move between 3 different brands of boots depending on what I'm climbing and they fit all 3 well. I think one of them might require an offset toe bail, but that fixes the fit issue and I've never had a problem with a good secure fit without shifting or falling off. 

Gunkiemike wrote:

You say the G22 are heavy. I believe they are close to the lightest dual point waterfall ice crampon out there, if not the very lightest..

Well g20 is lighter, I mean it's one whole point less! 

If you just want a mono point save a ton of money and buy g20 front points. The blade runner secondary points are far forward for stability on vertical ice and make walking on low angle glaciers a chore.

Nick Drake wrote:

Well g20 is lighter, I mean it's one whole point less! 

If you just want a mono point save a ton of money and buy g20 front points. The blade runner secondary points are far forward for stability on vertical ice and make walking on low angle glaciers a chore.

He's talking about dual point. But Petzl Dartwin is lighter (765g) vs G22 (936g). But G22 has anti-balling plate.

Bladerunner = 1015 g (35.8 oz)

G22 = 32.6 oz

G20 = 28 oz

G14 = 38.6 oz (presumably in dual point config, mono would be a bit lighter)

Petzl Dart = 745 g (26 oz)

The Bladerunners are some of the heaviest technical crampons out there, much heavier than a lot of the competition, but then again most of the competition isn't configurable.

I'd probably shy away from the Bladerunner, G20, or G22 for significant glacier use (unless you're crossing a glacier to get on some steep ice/mixed, in which case compromises must be made).

What about BD Snaggletooths (Snaggleteeth?)?  890g (31oz), reasonably comfy for glacier walking.  I haven't done much WI or mixed climbing in a few years so not really sure how they would stack up to Darts, Blade Runners, etc. on hard stuff.

Kyle Tarry wrote:

Bladerunner = 1015 g (35.8 oz)

G22 = 32.6 oz

G20 = 28 oz

G14 = 38.6 oz (presumably in dual point config, mono would be a bit lighter)

Petzl Dart = 745 g (26 oz)

The Bladerunners are some of the heaviest technical crampons out there, much heavier than a lot of the competition, but then again most of the competition isn't configurable.

I'd probably shy away from the Bladerunner, G20, or G22 for significant glacier use (unless you're crossing a glacier to get on some steep ice/mixed, in which case compromises must be made).

You can buy G20 and G22 frontpoint for a total of $360, similar priced with the Bladerunner. Same for Petzl Dart with Dartwin Front. There is also Lynx for $250.

You can also combine G14 with G12 front point for cheaper, similar weight and same amount of configuration.

I don't really get BladeRunner's feature and price point, unless they clearly outperform other crampons, I don't see the point. But that said, I'll pick up a pair for this winter and see how they fit my boots. Lynx just doesn't fit my Nepal well.

Ryan Hamilton wrote:

I've been using the Bladrunner mono for ice and mixed for the last 2 seasons. I love them. I like the way the secondary front points interface with the ice along with the mono-point. The fact that they don't collapse is a bit of hassle some times, but not usually a problem. I move between 3 different brands of boots depending on what I'm climbing and they fit all 3 well. I think one of them might require an offset toe bail, but that fixes the fit issue and I've never had a problem with a good secure fit without shifting or falling off. 

Thanks everyone! 

The front point placement on the 22's doesn't work with all my boots so it's good to know the Bladerunners do. 

I haven't had any issues on glacier with the G22s. They don't really collapse that small either so I just made a case for them. I think I'll spring for them. 

I own the Bladerunners and Snaggletooths and prefer the Snaggletooths for everything but steep (like WI6 steep) and hard/brittle ice. 

The Bladerunners seem like they are almost perfect EXCEPT, even with the toe bail in the most forward position, I still feel there is too much front point exposed which makes the crampon feel unstable unless the ice is soft enough that I can really sink the front points in farther than I really want too. This also creates more leverage on my calves. I do like the long/aggressive secondary points but I still feel all the points are farther in front of the toe of the boot than I like. I own about eight other pairs of crampons and, if anything, my complaint has usually been the opposite - can't get the secondary points far enough out in front of the toe of the boot to engage them, which is a common Will Gadd rant. 

It may be a problem with my boots only (Kayland M11) but I have only have this experience with Bladerunners. Anyone else have trouble with too much front point protusion on their Bladerunners?

Doug, how are the secondary points on the Snaggletooth?  I am very interested in a pair of those for this upcoming ice/alpine season, but it's a lot of dough if I don't like 'em.  The photos on the BD website make the secondaries look pretty short but it's hard to tell.  Got any photos?  They are like 10 oz lighter than my G14s that I use for alpine now, which is serious savings!

Kyle Tarry wrote:

Doug, how are the secondary points on the Snaggletooth?  I am very interested in a pair of those for this upcoming ice/alpine season, but it's a lot of dough if I don't like 'em.  The photos on the BD website make the secondaries look pretty short but it's hard to tell.  

As a general rule, I think the secondary points on all BD crampons are a joke because they are too short. But, this has never been an issue with the Snaggletooth because the huge horizontal mono coupled with the smaller "secondary" horizontal point just makes them feel very stable, like more stable than a vertical front point with larger secondary points. I feel the Snaggletooths are optimized for moderate mixed and all round alpine too. Like I said earlier, there are better crampons for steep/hard ice (WI5+ and up) but I feel that the Snaggletooths are the sleeper all around crampon that I used the most, and I assume they are not super popular because they seem like too much of a paradigm shift or niche product for many, and it is super trendy to hate on BD currently.  If I were advising any new climber, I would say start with the Snaggletooth and buy a second "quiver" 'pon when you figure out exactly what you like. 

Kyle Tarry wrote:

Doug, how are the secondary points on the Snaggletooth?  I am very interested in a pair of those for this upcoming ice/alpine season, but it's a lot of dough if I don't like 'em.  The photos on the BD website make the secondaries look pretty short but it's hard to tell.  Got any photos?  They are like 10 oz lighter than my G14s that I use for alpine now, which is serious savings!

I use the Snaggletooth for alpine, but I really don't like them on ice. I've used them a few times on top rope, as practice to see if I'd like them for alpine ice and I just don't like horizontal front points. They shatter brittle ice more often, require multiple kicks more often. When they're in I feel like they're fairly stable, but I like the clean quick sticks of vertical front points so much better. 

Thanks Doug.

Ryan, I agree.  I was thinking that a good quiver for me would be an aggressive mono (G20, Dart) for pure ice and mixed cragging (up to WI5/M6-ish), and the Snaggletooth for alpine routes (WI3+ and M4 probably, with significant steep snow and glacier travel).

My current quiver is G14s (mono config) for both cragging and harder alpine routes, and Sarkens for regular alpine routes.  Seems like G20/Snaggletooth would be an all-around improvement.

Ryan, based on your experience with the Snaggletooth, would you hesitate to use them on classic big alpine routes that included ice up to WI3+ (N. Ridge of Baker, Triple Couloirs or Gerber-Sink on Dragontail, etc.)?

Kyle Tarry wrote:

Thanks Doug.

Ryan, I agree.  I was thinking that a good quiver for me would be an aggressive mono (G20, Dart) for pure ice and mixed cragging (up to WI5/M6-ish), and the Snaggletooth for alpine routes (WI3+ and M4 probably, with significant steep snow and glacier travel).

My current quiver is G14s (mono config) for both cragging and harder alpine routes, and Sarkens for regular alpine routes.  Seems like G20/Snaggletooth would be an all-around improvement.

Ryan, based on your experience with the Snaggletooth, would you hesitate to use them on classic big alpine routes that included ice up to WI3+ (N. Ridge of Baker, Triple Couloirs or Gerber-Sink on Dragontail, etc.)?

I would be OK with using them, but they are definitely a step (or two) down in performance. But, you have to make compromises when you have a big objective. Cassin (CAMP) has some new crampons coming out this Fall that I'm looking at for alpine objectives that have ice pitches. The Cassin Alpinist Pro, they are a lot like the Petzl Dartwin, but with a Bladerunner influence. http://www.camp-usa.com/products/crampons/2449-alpinist-pro-auto-semi-auto/

I haven't looked at the weights, but I'm betting they are heavier than the Snaggletooth. 

Anyone got experience with the Edelrid Beast crampons? In particular, how do they fit on LS Nepal EVO?

Ryan Hamilton wrote:

I would be OK with using them, but they are definitely a step (or two) down in performance. But, you have to make compromises when you have a big objective. Cassin (CAMP) has some new crampons coming out this Fall that I'm looking at for alpine objectives that have ice pitches. The Cassin Alpinist Pro, they are a lot like the Petzl Dartwin, but with a Bladerunner influence. http://www.camp-usa.com/products/crampons/2449-alpinist-pro-auto-semi-auto/

I haven't looked at the weights, but I'm betting they are heavier than the Snaggletooth. 

Those look like a Bladerunner and a Sarken had a baby.

Sarkens are my favorite choice for big objectives so far.  

CAMP/ Cassin over the years has had problems with Quality Control.

In a sense they're like FIATs; they'll do the job, just don't expect much.

This is the reason Chouinard , Lowe Alpine , started having their gear made in the States.

This is also the reason why Jeff Lowe bailed on his first attempt to solo the North Face of the Eiger in Winter.

The Bladerunners  seem heavy, and incredibly expensive.

Right now I use G-20s for the really steep, and Snaggletooths for everything else.

A couple of things regarding the Snaggletooths; being that they're made of stainless, which isn't as hard as Chromemoly, kind of conforms to the rock some, sort of like a stopper or cam, chromemoly will either claw into the rock or just skate off.

the horizontal frontpoint is nice because you can pivot both sideways and up and down;don't even try pivoting up and down on a vertical frontpoint, you'll most likey POP.

Also, try walking around a cement floor with any of these minus the Snaggletooth, and you'll quickly start walking like a schoolgirl trying on first high heels, this tranlates into overall stability

Chris C. wrote:

Sarkens are my favorite choice for big objectives so far.  

I like my pair, but I find they don't climb very well on hard ice (like glacier ice).  My theory is that the horizontal+vertical points displace a ton of ice, limited penetration.  Plus they don't climb mixed as well as a mono due to the dual points.

Still, quite good all-around crampons.

Kyle Tarry wrote:

I like my pair, but I find they don't climb very well on hard ice (like glacier ice).  My theory is that the horizontal+vertical points displace a ton of ice, limited penetration.  Plus they don't climb mixed as well as a mono due to the dual points.

Still, quite good all-around crampons.

I have limited experience with Glacier ice climbing, and have only used standard dual or mono points on hard water ice. I'm planning to hit Liberty Ridge next year. Would this horizontal+vertical front point be OK for that? I do have my Bladerunners with the optional horizontal front points that I can use for Glacier travel and switch to vertical front points when we hit ice, but I can just see me losing the vertical front points or hex wrench along the way and having to climb on horizontal front points. Which could be done, but would suck..