Drinking & Climbing

did this trolling really go four pages? i'd climb with a drunk homeless ape working the ol gri gri before i let anybody from hotlanta belay me! 28 pts?? they musta been drinking at the half!

I have also climbed routes I knew info about and things I have never seen, drunk and at night.... Everyone has their own threshold for acceptable risk..

Jaren Watson wrote:

A bunch of folks have commented on how hard they have climbed while drinking. This is wholly irrelevant. The relevant point is whether a person can belay as safely when buzzed or drunk as when they are sober.

The obvious and clear answer is no. No reasonable person can argue that alcohol does not depress reaction time. It's simply not true.

What people want to argue is in close proximity, namely, can someone buzzed or drunk belay safely enough? Maybe the answer to that is yes for some, no for others. But let's not let our appreciation for alcohol get in the way of reality. 

The first point you tried to make  silly as people on both sides of the argument were speaking of performance.

The second point is silly as reaction time is not truly a great factor in catching someone if you know how to belay 

Your third point is silly as even sober people may or may not be able to belay safely. 

Go ahead and throw words and debate tactics as per the usual

Just because you got away with a bunch of stupid shit while drunk does not mean its a good idea....   Most professional functioning alcoholics can drive work and climb reasonably efectivly enough to keep their jobs and climbing partners.. not so much the wifes and girlfriends.. And then there is that one time they fck up and kill someone......

Hmmm, this is actually a really hard one. Climbing on pot, mushrooms or even acid? Ok, I'm good with that depending on the person and circumstance - but a bunch of alcohol? Never. Just flat out too impairing in general pretty much no matter who you are. A little alcohol - like sip off a flask to calm the nerves before or after hitting it - yeah, I don't have a problem with that either; but steady, ongoing drinking throughout the day and going through like a six-pack while free climbing? Not with me. Sure people's tolerance levels vary a bunch, but that's the whole point of the driving / blood alcohol thing; that past a certain saturation level everyone is going to be impaired. 

There has been much posted about what a bunch of dickheads exists on MP. The OP asked a sincere and honest question and has received a range of down to earth answers...seems no one busted his chops, when there was plenty of material to do so. Maybe not such a big bunch of dickheads after all.

As a broader question, perhaps also helpful to Spencer, when, or even, should you, speak up to a potential partner? 

You climb with someone you've not met before, something (anything) about it bugs you. Should you speak up and tell the person specifically what the deal breaker is, just be vague and back off it, maybe just don't bother to contact them at all?

Personally, I would talk to people, but  know some of you don't appreciate that from me, lol! YMMV?? The classic answer, "it depends"?

And. Would you pass this information on to other people?

Best, Helen

Aside to Spencer, re those horns: Jews got them. We blow ours on high holy days. :-)

To OP: this whole thing steams from the fact that your lady wasn't happy. But...  you volunteered that information so clearly you weren't comfortable. People do what they do but you have to do you. If you're not okay voice it. I come from a land where v thread pipes are common but in general I have had bad experiences with intoxicants and climbing. (all related to performance issues other than that one time when the white lady was my belay). I'm more of the mind set of wait till you're down. I belayed a guy once who insisted on climbing while intoxicated and the result was him decking (no injuries) but still an eye opener. There is no right or wrong answer here.  People could argue it from any point but  I think it all sums up to if the reward is worth the risk than take it. But like Krakauer says if you die doing something stupid you embarrassed yourself and the community. Have fun, be safe, communicate.  

Spence, Yo.   Say exactly what you said on here, to you partner. (if you like the person and possibly want to climb with them again). They will understand.   NEVER limit yourself.. who knows maybe that guy drinks every single time he climbs and the next time because of your brilliant human concern (which is 1000% legit... I would be freaked out if i didn't understand what alcohol does) maybe the next time he doesn't drink while climbing with you and has the best time of his life!  The conversation could go a 100 different ways but i guarantee you will find common ground and understanding... All things/drugs/alcohol aside you need experience with a partner to gain and understanding if a partner is safe or not..  simple as that 

For me it would mostly depend on if they seemed like a junk show, or had their poop in a group.  Either way, my preference would be to not leave the ground with someone carrying a 6 pack.  Couple beers, no problem.  I do like a beer after the climb.

Jaren Watson wrote:

If by "throw(ing) words" you mean "stating inarguable facts and using common sense," then yes, I and others will go ahead, as you say.  Try to keep up.

This dude takes no shit. I love it.JW, I'm going to be bummed when you go back to work in the fall and have to channel your sardonic side into curbstomping plagiarists. Thank you for setting the bar high on this forum, despite the slings and arrows of outrageous anonymous assclownery.

I'd take a belayer who has been drinking all day and is paying attention over someone who never drinks and never pays attention. I've had bad experiences with people's attention, never with people drinking too much, and I'm not opposed to a breakfast beer or a night climb after knocking back a few. Not that I do either often, but they do happen.

That said, if someone feels uncomfortable, the drinking stops, or the climbing stops, until a solution can be found. Sometimes that's a short break and back to it, sometimes it's new partners - someone who can enjoy a couple and still climb for me, someone else who abstains for the other climber. You work out the details and get back to having fun. 

Understand the history of your sport young one. Be ready and willing to communicate open minded, have standards of safety for yourself - you're LDS I assume you have a dozen or so kids to tend to so treat your safety standards accordingly. 

Theres another world out there that you've been sheltered from and you can never understand, not without a huge letting go of who you are. The same goes for guys like me understanding where you come from.

You know, LDS and LSD sound pretty similar...

Drinking or not there is a lot of bad decisions out there. Seen this one not long ago. No drinking with them but still there was a bad decision with ine leader shaking his way up a contrived route and putting the other leader at risk if he fell in him (which could have very well happened here). In my handful of years climbing I see more bad decisions made with the "new" non party climber them the "old" party crowd. Either way if you you don't feel comfortable with your partner then correct them and move on.

p.s. I like to take my Budweiser climbing with me often. Mountains, ice, trad and bar stool. 

GDavis wrote:

Understand the history of your sport young one. Be ready and willing to communicate open minded, have standards of safety for yourself - you're LDS I assume you have a dozen or so kids to tend to so treat your safety standards accordingly. 

Theres another world out there that you've been sheltered from and you can never understand, not without a huge letting go of who you are. The same goes for guys like me understanding where you come from.

You know, LDS and LSD sound pretty similar...

I think you got the acronym wrong. Pretty sure the name of this world is the ICU. However, if you drink while climbing and find yourself in the ICU, I am pretty confident you’ll learn all about letting go and being open-minded so at least you got that.

GDavis wrote:

Theres another world out there that you've been sheltered from and you can never understand, not without a huge letting go of who you are.

Hot damn, condescend much? It's not like the OP is Amish. Understanding another world doesn't necessitate full participation or identification therein. The argument that you will never understand X if you aren't X or have never done X is a fabrication of the identity politics culture that is currently wreaking havoc in the public sphere.

EDIT: Upon review of further context provided by GDavis, I retract my allegation of condescension. Sorry, bud: We'd probably hit it off just fine if we had a beer together in real life.

I wonder if all the zero tolerance for anyone drinking have similar policies for climbing with randos from mountain project or people they haven't watched climb/belay before. Risk management is a very fluid thing, and when one has limited options for partners, sometimes you can't get the ideal. Everyone has their own limits but a zero alcohol tolerance regardless of circumstance seems like you should be taking a pretty risk averse approach to all things climbing. 

That being said I feel the OP is making the right call on this given his circumstances. 

Ryan M Moore wrote:

I wonder if all the zero tolerance for anyone drinking have similar policies for climbing with randos from mountain project or people they haven't watched climb/belay before. Risk management is a very fluid thing, and when one has limited options for partners, sometimes you can't get the ideal. Everyone has their own limits but a zero alcohol tolerance regardless of circumstance seems like you should be taking a pretty risk averse approach to all things climbing. 

That being said I feel the OP is making the right call on this given his circumstances. 

I would personally rather climb with a good friend who is hammered, than some rando I "met" online. 

edit: and would NEVER climb with a hammered rando.

greg t wrote:

"This silly comment thread is unwanted, unwarranted, and will not be accepted!"

If you don't know who this is you obviously do not understand your heritage as a climber and there for should not be commenting on the subject at hand.