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Tips for Denali

diepj · · PDX · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 0

Re:Shovels - I would recommend 1 aluminum shovel with telescoping handle. The bigger and longer the better. Like the BD D9 if they still make it. Shovel #2 should be a short handled garden spade, steel blade. Like a regular digging shovel but mini blade and like a 2' long handle. Ace has them for ~$20. Perfect for digging in dead men (and busting them back out) and keeps you from busting your other shovel on ice. If you had a big team take another big shovel or even a grain scoop type one for moving the loose stuff. 

Ibrahim Cetindemir · · Ashford, WA · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5
Jaime Andersen wrote:

Just curious. The Phoenix, If I recall correctly, is a half or twin rope. Are you using it single as a glacier travel rope? What route? Any technical objectives for your time in the AK Range? Honestly, if I were to do just a standard W BUTT or even RIB I wouldn't use any dynamic rope, and certainly not an 8mm dynamic. I know, lots of people will disagree. 

In reality, you absolutely don't require what a dynamic rope provides, and in reality, for crevasse falls and rescue, low-stretch is your friend. 8mm dynamic stretches, is hard to pull on when wet and icy, and doesn't always stand up to abuse the best. There are some good low-stretch (i.e. static) options that are way more friendly for glacier travel. 

That being said, if you have some side objectives that involve rock, alpine, ice, etc, you have to take that into consideration. Just something else to think about. 

Have a blast. Keep the fingers crossed for some additional snow in the range as we enter May!

Yes sir, using the Phoenix as a single. No technical objectives at all, just the standard west buttress route. I do have a static 9.2mm rope, if im not mistaken. I could look into the weight difference and go from there. Thanks for the advice Jaime. 

Jaime Andersen · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2017 · Points: 0

Yes sir, using the Phoenix as a single. No technical objectives at all, just the standard west buttress route. I do have a static 9.2mm rope, if im not mistaken. I could look into the weight difference and go from there. Thanks for the advice Jaime. 

Definitely go with the static (or probably low stretch) 9.2. The weight difference? How much of the rope do you carry vs drag? the moment you have a partner that is suspended in a crevasse with a pack and sled you will learn the definition of rope stretch! 

Have fun, and definitely keep the fingers crossed for snow! Super low snow year, lots of open crevasses.

j

Stiles · · the Mountains · Joined May 2003 · Points: 845

Thanks for all the great advice, yall.  Here are a few things from my trip.  (38 days solo on the mountain, ski'd [telemark, as it were] off the tip-top June 2nd).   

- Consider using a static rope on the glacier.

- What you're doing is standing on your feet, if you're not on your ass.  Seriously visualize and consider how much foam is between you and dry ice, all the time. Stack up the foam 'tween you and the cold.

- Ski up to 14k.

- About 20 people fell into crevasses (that I heard about) over the first half of this season (punch-thrus, a 40ft freehanging catch, up to a 50ft solo entrapment that required a chainsaw, blowtorches and 14hrs to extricate)

- You MUST be able to pull someone out of a hole smoothly, calmly, and efficiently.

- Bring a thick, brain-candy book. Like Lonesome Dove. Or the Bible. Ever read the whole Bible?  You might have time to.

- MSR XGK for making water.  Whisperlite for cooking.  Don’t ever cook in the water pot, ever.  Don’t mess around with cartridge stoves.  Consider a heat exchanger on the water pot, its worth its weight.  Colin Haley promotes cartridge stoves for light and fast, but if you're as good as that, you're not reading this.  They're a big hassle.  

- Big stout avalanche shovel. Black Diamond makes a great expedition shovel.  Big and strong is required.    

- AMS in Talkeetna sells the best-coverage cheek/nose guard.  They also carry small steel garden spades.   They also have the best maps available (ask about them).  And buy the little orange paper card 'Guide to the W. Butt' w/ Washburns photos; great beta for all routes' descent--nobody wanted to be rookie enough to buy one, but everyone wanted to look at it.

- You cannot take enough pictures of other people.  The best pictures have people in them.  Take LOTS!

- Night travel on the glacier is from 2 or 3am until 9 or 10am.  11pm or midnight is not late enough for the surface to freeze once it starts getting warm.

- Walking or skiing- a Whippet is the way to go.  How are you going to self-arrest with ski poles in your hands after your buddy takes a plunge and is pulling you into the void? 

- You cannot have too much coffee.  For real. COFFEE!  Hot Chocolate and Cider at night.  Butter and sugar in high quantity, too. 

- A handle of whiskey per team member.  Plastic, yo.  Brink a small bottle of something special to celebrate (tequila, of course), and 3 (three) special fancy chocolate bars.

- Lots of food/gas is up for grabs from teams leaving.  

- Pepperoni.  Pounds and pounds of pepperoni.  Pringles and Combos.  A surplus of dehydrated/freeze-dried meat to add to all meals is wonderful.   

- Take care of your face!  Big, dark sunglasses; full cheek/nose guard; reapply heavy-duty sunscreen every two hours.  You’ll see folks with fried faces, and they look foolish.  Dermatone No-Touch SPF50 Sunscreen Stick

- Take care of your body.  Stay clean!  Bring bath wipes.  Rub Tea Tree oil on your feet every night/morning.  Deodorant is great to rub on your feet and your armpits.  Dry feet are important. Mouthwash is really awesome, too.   Clean smells are much appreciated.

- Bring fancy face lotion to put on at night.  Also 2 night chapsticks and 2 high SPF day chapsticks.  Your nose and lips are gonna get chapped.  Count on it.  Your hands take a proper beating, too.  Take care of yourself up there!

- Many pairs of thin wool liner gloves.  Always protect your hands. 

- Don’t just bring three pairs of socks.  How much do socks weigh?  They are priceless.  Six pairs of ski socks.  Did you size your boots huge for thick Mountaineering socks?  They'll compress you feet and make you colder.  Wool ski socks are the way to go.  I summited in a mega thin pair of silk liner ski socks, and it was cold out.  

- Focus strongly (ha!) on Dead Lifts and kettlebell swings in training.  Turkish Get Up, too.  The most helpful exercise will be the Dead Lift.  Totally max out your Dead Lift.  If you can, row for aerobic training. 

- Summiting from 14k' is damned hard.  While I was on the mountain (28 Apr-6Jun), only 3 people did this.  Many, many tried.  Many had to rely on others.  Don't be that dick.  

- Force the food and water.  You must shovel in food, constantly.  Mix your drink (Gatorade,hot chocolate,Tailwind Endurance Fuel).  Add sugar to tea and coffee.  It'd be good if everything you put into your body had calories.

- As far as supplements go: Kyolic makes a good garlic formula for circulation that has cayenne, Vit. E and garlic.  Ibuprofen or Aleve, buffered aspirin.  Ginko biloba twice a day.  I also took a healthy dose of fish oil twice a day.   Sundial Medicinals in Moab makes an outstanding Altitude Formula herbal tincture.  It will keep your respiratory and circulatory systems running HOT.  Bring ½ quart/person.  I swear by this stuff--it is very, very effective.  Osha root is pure required magic.

- 'The Four Hour Body' by T. Ferriss is very enlightening.  Steve House’s ‘New Alpinism’ should be studied thoroughly, too.  A. Kirkpatrick's '1001 Climbing Tips'.

- Verizon cell service at 14,200’ camp.  Get weather forecasts (and tell your sweetie "all’s well!") this way. 

- FM radio out of Anchorage at 14k, too.  An mp3/fm receiver is killer.  

- Solar charger.  Brunton Solaris 26 can be found on amazon for $250.  It is worth it.  It even charged IN the cooktent during snowstorms.    

- From Motorcycle Hill, cache at 14,200’ Camp.  Only cache at 13,500’ if weather forces it.  Ravens know well how to dig out a cache. Bury them well.  

- A cook tent (Megamid) in addition to a sleeping tent. 

- Sleeping bag liner.  l had a silk liner, 20F Marmot down bag, 15F Valandre Lafayette outer down bag, and BD Winter bivy sac.  

- Spend about $50 at To The Summit in Talkeetna

- Gift for BC manager

- My meals were all bulk freeze dried.  Added seasonings, freeze dried vegetables, and extra freeze dried meat to each one.  l also ate 10lbs of Kerry Gold Irosh butter up there.

- One bigass bag o almond m&ms/person/week

-HAVE PATIENCE.  Plan an open-ended trip if you really want to succeed.  June is the time to be there.

- “Denali Dispatches” on the NPS website has much valuable information to help plan timing. 

Geoff Georges · · Seattle, WA · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 4,649

glad it worked out, skied off the summit is a huge bonus. After 3 trips up there I wanted to, but the snow never cooperated, had good skiing from 16,000 though. Looks like you learned all the same tips. I had one solo trip myself- up the upper west rib from 14k in a 24 hr round trip, great memories.

Ibrahim Cetindemir · · Ashford, WA · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5
Jaime Andersen wrote:

Definitely go with the static (or probably low stretch) 9.2. The weight difference? How much of the rope do you carry vs drag? the moment you have a partner that is suspended in a crevasse with a pack and sled you will learn the definition of rope stretch! 

Have fun, and definitely keep the fingers crossed for snow! Super low snow year, lots of open crevasses.

j

Thanks man! I actually ended up using the phoenix, mostly due to weight; I flew to WA and did Rainier as soon as I was done in AK. We couldn't summit Denali. After spending 5 days at 11k due to weather we tried single carrying all of our kit to 14 but the weather turned bad on us again as we were passing squirrel point, we camped near the windy corner cache. Spent another 2 days there waiting for weather but our tent fell apart. the window delaminated on the second day of the trip, a small tear appeared followed by anotherone and another one. Had repair kit for the tent but came to the conclusion that we couldnt trust it at 17k, never bringing any mountain hardwear gear to any trips, ever.

Things I learned: 

-Dont try wiping your butt outside in -30 degree weather

-Mildly freezing your fingers hurts, badly.

-Bring a thick book

-Fresh pair of undies + socks=feeling like a new person

-Goldbond=amazing

-If you don't wanna have a bad time don't ever bring a mountain hardwear tent, I would've brought 2 garbage bags and a broom stick over the mh tent that costs us the trip

-Brings lots of beef jerky

-Dont let urine in your pee bottle freeze

-You can only eat so many tortillas before you get sick of them

-Will definitively bring more dehydrated ground beef next time, it was amazing for cooking so many things

-Bring a cook tent

-Always probe your camp and its vicinity

-11k camp is mined with cracks, i fell in 2. Dont travel unroped 

-Pick your climbing partners VERY carefully

- Camp booties are essential when hanging out in camp

-Tang=amazing. Drink cold or as a hot drink. Went through 2 bottles

-Endurance food/snacks do work. Brought a bunch of GU gels/waffles and Ucan drink mixes. I could definitely feel the difference

-Always be roped when going on poop disposal missions, the poop crack at 11k almost ate me

-Accept the fact that sleds will be a pain no matter what, pack the heavy stuff near the bottom of your duffel

Denali is an incredible mountain, its challenging, beautiful, fun and deadly. Planning another West Buttress trip next summer

Kevin Do · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Feb 2017 · Points: 0
Ibra Cetindemir wrote:

Thanks man! I actually ended up using the phoenix, mostly due to weight; I flew to WA and did Rainier as soon as I was done in AK. We couldn't summit Denali. After spending 5 days at 11k due to weather we tried single carrying all of our kit to 14 but the weather turned bad on us again as we were passing squirrel point, we camped near the windy corner cache. Spent another 2 days there waiting for weather but our tent fell apart. the window delaminated on the second day of the trip, a small tear appeared followed by anotherone and another one. Had repair kit for the tent but came to the conclusion that we couldnt trust it at 17k, never bringing any mountain hardwear gear to any trips, ever.

Things I learned: 

-Dont try wiping your butt outside in -30 degree weather

-Mildly freezing your fingers hurts, badly.

-Bring a thick book

-Fresh pair of undies + socks=feeling like a new person

-Goldbond=amazing

-If you don't wanna have a bad time don't ever bring a mountain hardwear tent, I would've brought 2 garbage bags and a broom stick over the mh tent that costs us the trip

-Brings lots of beef jerky

-Dont let urine in your pee bottle freeze

-You can only eat so many tortillas before you get sick of them

-Will definitively bring more dehydrated ground beef next time, it was amazing for cooking so many things

-Bring a cook tent

-Always probe your camp and its vicinity

-11k camp is mined with cracks, i fell in 2. Dont travel unroped 

-Pick your climbing partners VERY carefully

- Camp booties are essential when hanging out in camp

-Tang=amazing. Drink cold or as a hot drink. Went through 2 bottles

-Endurance food/snacks do work. Brought a bunch of GU gels/waffles and Ucan drink mixes. I could definitely feel the difference

-Always be roped when going on poop disposal missions, the poop crack at 11k almost ate me

-Accept the fact that sleds will be a pain no matter what, pack the heavy stuff near the bottom of your duffel

Denali is an incredible mountain, its challenging, beautiful, fun and deadly. Planning another West Buttress trip next summer

Great tips! Sorry to hear about your tent. Which model were you guys using?? I never did trust those windows

Chris C · · Seattle, WA · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 396

Would love to hear what happened with the tent.  Glad you didn't die in the poo crack.

Jeremy Cote · · White Mountains NH · Joined Nov 2015 · Points: 0

I saw numerous people walking alone toward those giant crevasses at 11 and 14 camp. Would be a real shitty way to go, no pun intended. Chalk it up to pure laziness to not rope up.

Ben Taggart · · Oakland, CA · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 0

Climbed the WB this year, summited on 05/31 with a team of 3. Some notes and tips below:

- We used an MH Trango 4 for sleeping and a MegaLight over a pit w/ benches for cook tent / hangout. Would recommend the combo although having used both, the MH and NorthFace tents seem pretty much the same aside from clips vs. sleeves. Hillebergs look really nice, but you pay for it. Definitely use a mid for cook tent, or be prepared to dig some sort of cooking cave or make an igloo at 14k. Cooking in the vestibule sucks. Definitely practice setting up the cook tent and digging the pit, making benches, etc before going. You'll get some practice as you move up, but you want the one at 14k to be awesome. 

- For camp footwear, I used the 40Below booties inside my overboots. This combo was perfect for just walking around camp. The booties were also worn inside the tent. 

- SKIS! It would have been so much harder without them, and we would have gone crazy. "Recreational" skiing at 14 and 11k kept us sane while waiting for the weather to permit upward progress. When we were there, you could get about halfway up to the fixed lines before encountering the first crevasses, so most people just skied that slope. We also went out towards the W rib once or twice. Pay attention to where the wind has blown to get a sense of where the good skiing will be. We had some awesome powder days at 14!

- If you are leaving a cache lower on the mountain (say at 11k) mark it with a probe AND some wands, make it really fucking tall and have a really good idea of where it is relative to some landmark (ie. the shit crevasse) or take photos. When we were descending from 14, it took me maybe 45min to find our cached sled, we only found it because some guy heard us searching and told us that there was a probe in his camp. Only 6in of my normal-length probe was sticking out right next to this guy's cook tent. It took another half hour of digging down over a meter to get the sled out. 

- Skiing downhill with sleds while roped up in a group of 3 is pretty much the worse thing ever, even on the low-angle sections. Any variation in speed will result in the faster person having to pizza or make quick turns, and your legs will be shot. It's important to dial in the speed by having burlier sled brakes on the rear guys. Practice this at least once before leaving, since you'll need to do it right off the plane, descending heartbreak hill. On the steep sections (Squirrel hill, motorcycle hill) we just sideslipped the whole way down. Not glamorous but you're still going faster than walking.

- We did not ski from the summit, but we did summit wearing only ski boots + 40below overboots. If anyone is considering this footwear approach I would recommend it as long as you get your boots dialed in before leaving, and you're using a lightweight boot with great ROM that walks well (TLT6/7, Backland, F1, etc). It seems silly to bring both mountaineering and ski boots. 

- Denali was overall a much drier place then I expected. We had plenty of snow while there, but compared to other winter camping trips I've been on, everything stayed drier and dried out very quickly. Higher on the mountain, your tent will become a greenhouse when the sun hits it (even on a cloudy day!) and everything that's not buried will dry out on its own, even with 3 gross dudes in the tent. Socks, gloves, boot liners can be dried very effectively inside the sleeping bag. If you're considering bringing extra of something "in case it gets wet" I would lean on the side of not, especially if you're going in May. After we left I heard there was some rain higher up though, which might change things.

- Bottom layers: I wore 1 or 2 base bottoms plus softshell pants (Arcteryx Procline) 100% of the time on moving days. Never wore my hardshell pants. Down pants were very nice to have around camp, would recommend them. 

-Top layers: Base layers, R1, Nano Air, Combo shell (Westcomb Apoc) got the most use. On summit day I put on my MH Ghost Whisperer near the top as we slowed down. The only time I wore the big jacket (Rab Positron) while moving was after midnight descending from the summit on the 17k ridge. I wore it all the time around camp though.

- Solar charging is insanely effective on Denali. On a sunny day I charged my phone with the panel inside the tent by the window, and on a completely cloudy day we recharged our inReach with the panel outside.

- Outside weather info can stop you from going crazy. The official forecast you'll get up there only goes 2 days out, which is maddening, and then it changes a lot. We used Chris Tomer's forecasting service and it was key since we ended up spending 12 days at 14k waiting for improving weather. We knew about the summit window 5 days ahead.

- For dinners, we had a 4-dinner rotation (Mac & Cheese, Quesadillas with Beef, Pesto Pasta, Couscous + Salami) plus a few nights of Mtn House, this worked out well for a group of 3. A lot of these meals had extra calories in the form for a shitload of olive oil or ghee (butter that is liquid at room temp) which helped us be efficient on food weight since those are the most weight-efficient calories out there. We put our 750ml of olive oil in a 1L platypus which worked perfectly (it extrudes nicely when semi-solid) but it froze rock solid a few times and we had to warm it up with body heat. You definitely want to plan this all out with a spreadsheet. It was annoying to re-package all the food in Anchorage, but it's key to fitting it in the sleds.

- Our main food failure was bringing a ton of dehydrated soup mix with veggies, thinking that we would get veggies that way. It turns out that even those tiny chopped-up veggies take a long time boiling to rehydrate, so we ended up eating a lot of gross chunky veggies and taking down a lot of the soup mix. Instant miso was a much bigger hit, would recommend. You're not going to get scurvy on Denali so don't worry about the veggies. 

- We summited from 14k in a single push, leaving at 8:30AM and returning at 3AM. This was not our original plan, but after spending 12 days waiting at 14k and running out of time, we didn't have much appetite for spending a bunch of time moving camp, and we felt acclimatized and rested. Because of the weather, the highest we had been before summit day was caching at Washburn's thumb (~16.5?). We all felt pretty good about the decision, although we had a moment of weakness getting back to 17 camp around 1AM and wishing that we could crawl into a tent. I would recommend leaving yourself the option of camping at 17 and evaluating your fitness once you've spent a few days at 14.

-Training: Runs in HR zone 2 about 3X/week at least an hour, and then maybe 1-2X ski touring days per week in Tahoe (I'm a weekend warrior), plus crossfit 2X/week (I know..). On the ski days I would carry 5-8L of extra water in my pack and dump at the top. This worked well for me, felt pretty strong on summit day. 

If you're considering going, find a good crew and make it happen!

J Roatch · · Leavenworth, WA · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 162

Reviving a 2017 thread, it sure is quarantine time. Sorry I don’t have an answer to your question

christoph benells · · tahoma · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 306

Re #3:

I would bring down booties to go inside the over boots. Your ski boot liners will be all wet, and no fun to hang out in. My camp set up was overboots, closed cell foam cut outs to fit into overboots, then down booties. Plenty sturdy to dig out the tent in.

I had days where I didn't even put on my ski boots- just lazing around camp in pajamas all day, kind of like life in ye ol' quarantine...

Stiles · · the Mountains · Joined May 2003 · Points: 845

look at this crazy shit.  2pounds of powder makes 6lbs of butter.   and its 'premium'!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Pacific Northwest
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