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Do you always pack out the trash you find on hikes/climbs?
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Whenever I'm out climbing, I make sure to brush ticks and pick up every scrap of trash I can find around the rocks. Partially because I enjoy a clean crag, but mostly because I want to improve an already tense relationship between the climbing community and the park rangers. |
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I've taken to saving and carrying bread bags to serve as garbage bags on hikes and climbs, and I pick up all kinds of stuff as long as it isn't sharp enough to cut the bag. An exception is when I'm trail running, in which case stopping to pick up stuff really interferes with what I'm trying to do. |
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Couple years ago I had a pretty disappointing interaction with a visiting climber at Indian Creek. After picking up a banana peel on the hike up to Battle of the Bulge Buttress, I watched this guy munch on a banana, then lazily toss the peel out down the talus field where it landed square in the middle of the trail. When I asked if he would please pick up the banana peel he responded, "What? What's the big deal? We do it in Europe all the time. The critters love it." After a short conversation about the idea of conservation and the fact that there a. aren't any banana trees in Indian Creek, b. the unsightliness of a banana peel in the trail, and c. the fact that teaching critters to eat human food is a bad idea all around, he reluctantly agreed to pick up the peel. We left the crag after they did and I ended up picking up the peel and carrying it out. Am I on a soapbox? Yup. Do I generally pack out trash? Yeah. Do I do it everywhere all the time? Nope. I think the decision also has to do with how attached you are to a place. Indian Creek is a special place to me and I put more energy into conservation there than in other places I visit where I don't have such a personal connection to the land. Now whether that's a valid philosophy is absolutely a reasonable question and I recognize the hypocrisy of saying, "Oh I only work to protect the places I care about." |
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I've always picked up trash items (within reason) at crags and camp grounds if for no other reason than so I don't have to look at it...........many moons ago when I smoked I carried a ziplock for butts, a time or two people actually thanked us when they saw it in use. No excuse for the applicator up thread either, ziplock will take care of those things too. When we take the boyscouts camping no matter what the activity, or where we camp, we offer the park officials our services and do a trash round-up in the park. Often we ask where it's needed most, or if there's a section of trail that needs attention etc. The boys get their service hours for rank advancement and the place is better than we found it. Sometimes we are rewarded with a discount on our camping fees though none is ever expected or solicited. On climbing or other backwoods outings we hand out kitchen trash bags to the boys to put in their day packs, whoever turns in the most trash upon returning to the campground gets a prize. I have seen boys scramble for trash like it was an Easter egg more than a time or two! The dog crap in a bag still blows my mind, converting something that is 90% decomposed and rapidly biodegradable into trailside garbage for everyone to enjoy as they pass it is next-level rude. To any dog owners on here that do this, please. Take the dog off the trail away from water sources, let them do their doody and walk away. Even if you pick up the bags on the way out you've ruined the trail experience for everyone that passes it (coming or going) until you return. Either don't bag it or take it with you if you do. JB |
Matt Zia wrote: I've had these conversations with people about orange peels or banana peels. Usually their response is along the lines of, "what's the harm, it is biodegradable, or the critters will eat it". And my response is, sure, it is biodegradable, but that orange peel is going to sit there for a few months, this is a busy area, and if everybody threw one in the next three months, this would look like quite a dump. In most cases the next level is "but I don't have anything to put it it", and then I offer my trash bag, and the people reluctantly pick up the item they just discarded, and put it in my bag, often with some eye rolling and grumbling... but I have teenagers, eye rolling and grumbling are nothing to me. :) |
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Thank you, fellow climbers, for all these efforts you've described about leaving places better off than when you arrived! We are clearly not alone, though it may seem so in some moments. I for one am greatly encouraged after reading your comments! Let's keep on doing what we're doing, and little by little, we can only hope that more people will follow suit. And if they don't, at least we know that we are doing a little bit all the time to help keep the world a little cleaner. In response to Matt Zia's comment about investing more effort into his beloved Indian Creek than other places, that's fine and necessary. It's a bit like political activism—if you engage in every cause/area with equal zeal, you will burn out quickly. The real difference comes from a sustained effort. So if we each pick an area that matters most to us and stick with it over a long period of time, that will make a greater difference—collectively we will cover all the bases. Dog poop: I have a dog and a success story about a popular hiking trail near my home. Yes, I often bag turds and leave them on the side of the trail. 98% of the time I pick them up on the way back down the hill—because why carry a bag of shit all the way up and down the extra distance when you're coming back the same way? Very rarely, I forget to pick up the bag, either because I walk right by it with my head in the clouds or my descent plans changed for some reason. Because of this, I make a point to pick up other bags of poo when I encounter them. (Leave a bag/take a bag=net zero.) In the last year or so, more people are apparently doing this. Now, 2 out of 3 times, I return to where I left the bag and it is gone, having already been picked up by someone else. I am amazed at how quickly and voraciously others have picked up bags almost as soon as I leave them! So what do I do? I damn sure pick up the next bag I see. The dog turds seemed like such an overwhelming problem just a few years ago, and I could find cold, errant bags almost at will. Now, not so much. I'm proud of my community. Bottom line, let's continue to do what we've been doing and have greater faith that others are, or will eventually, do the same. Carry on... |
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I don't know what kind of fuss-up this may cause, but given that you're gonna carry the poop bag some distance anyway, I can't think of a single decent reason to leave that crap (in literal and figurative sense) sitting by the side of the trail for all the other users to look at.l It is littering, pure and simple, and the intention (not always realized) to retrieve the poop bag later changes nothing. And personally, as a non dog owner who picks up some of those poop bags, I resent the fact that it is left to me to clean up the disgusting messes left by people who may or may not return later and even if they do return have left their gross trail adornments---possibly all day---until they return, if they actually do return and if they happen to remember to do the pickup. There's just no excuse for this. Either take the dog 100 feet off the trail away from any water sources and let them poop there, or use a bag and carry with you the entire time. It really isn't a big deal. There are places (eg Mount Whitney) where people are required to carry out human feces. |
Anonymous wrote: I pick up hundeds of poop bags every year. I can absolutely assure you that the majority of doggie poop bag leavers have zero intention of carrying it out. On a more positive note, I used to pick up a ridiculous amount of cigarette butts, rope end tape, clif bar wrappers, and soiled tighty-whities around Eldo's crags. In recent years that situation has really improved. Yay Eldo climbers. |
D-Storm wrote: I think you are going to get flamed for this. at least by me. I hate you for this. I hate you for leaving your dogs shit on the trail even for 10 minutes. It is not other dog owners packing up other peoples mess, its other people who are tired of seeing it. Forget net zero, that doesn't justify it to me. This is purposeful litter and trash left that is Literally the easiest type to avoid - especially because you are cognizant that you forget, or the route could change or any number of things that you so readily admit. If carrying the bag of excrement is so odious that you wont carry it with you, then leave the fucking dog at home. Here's an idea, get an old Nalgene, and use it to put the bags in. Would that make it less gross? |
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I try to pick up garbage when I can, but sometimes it's not always practical. It's truly disheartening to see how people mindlessly throw trash anywhere they please. I've organized a couple of trash pick up days with the Boy Scouts (conveniently at my local crag) as well. It's a good and easy way for the boys to get service hours. But for the people who say get your dog 100 yards off the trail to do their business, that's not practical at all. Most dog owners will attest to their dog walking along then all of a suden they're squatting to poop. For the people who don't own dogs, try getting a baby to stop having diarrhea until you can carry them and hold them over the trash can. I'm not saying that it's acceptable to leave poop bags, but you can't really get your dog off the trail quickly enough to let them do their business. If you want something to help you feel good about cleaning efforts, check this out: https://www.facebook.com/pg/ohioclimberscoalition.org/videos/?ref=page_internal |
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I pick up everything but dog poo in bags, but this thread has inspired me to start carrying a trash bag to get those too. |
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Dog owners with a conscience: get one or two of these: https://loksak.myshopify.com/collections/opsak/products/opsak, put your dog poop bags in 'em, and carry them the entire time you are on the trail. These bags look like ziploc bags but are sturdier and completely odor proof. You only need one to reuse over and over since the poop is already in its own plastic baggie. |
rgold wrote: Interesting, I'll have to order one for hiking with my dog. |
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Here, we have two local climbing areas. The Black Cliffs, outside of town, are mostly frequented by climbers, much, much less so by others. It is quite well taken care of, and when something does happen, like a dumbass kid spray painting a request for a prom date, the climbing community is outraged and works with land managers to get the graffiti off, and the perpetrator ends up with a bounty on their head. The other area, Table Rock, has been closed to any climbing related development for decades now. It is very close to town, a popular hang out and party destination, and has been given up on, in terms of broken glass, trash and graffiti. Would a more active climbing presence turn the tide? I have to think so, based on the lack of glass where people boulder most often. Last year, Table Rock suffered a fire so intense, it burned the top layers off of the rock. A great many groups came together to get in there and pack out suddenly very visible trash, clean at least some of the graffiti, and start the long process of planting and recovery on this iconic mesa where so many enjoy hiking, biking and showing off the view to others. Will it last? Dunno. But people do change. Sometimes glacially, sometimes with an event that sparks the change. Best, Helen Oh. The fire? Illegal fireworks. A twenty year old now owes almost $400,000 for the firefighting bill. The civil suit for the home that burned is undoubtedly still coming. |
Lena chita wrote: Ditto. |
goingUp wrote: Sure, flame and hate away. That's what you're going to do anyway and it won't change anything. I've probably picked up a lot more trash than you in my lifetime—I mean a lot—and my conscience is clear on this matter. I'm pretty active about LNT, so yeah, when I'm traveling light on a quick loop from the house, I afford myself this small, occasional convenience. The real intent of my story is that I've witnessed a community improve on its habits of being nice to each other and collectively keeping a trail quite clean. I'm on the Western Slope, by the way, not the Frange, which does seem a bit overrun with self-righteous idiots these days—many of them are on this site. I threw you haters a bone anyway, figuring I'd see a response or two like yours. Suck it. |
amockalypsenow wrote: When I see litter in the back country... or anyplace climbers go.... I just pick it up. It looks so out of place, so sad, so depressing. But to the point of the quote. I remember way way back in the 60's when just about everybody tossed trash straight out the car window it was the American way. Lady Bird Johnson started up a clean up America idea. http://www.pbs.org/ladybird/shattereddreams/shattereddreams_report.html This also started the environmental movement in the USA with people looking at the trash and the effects on our world. This idea has sadly not been universal, far from it. I have hope and expectations that climbing will automaticly instill in you this idea, but over the years this idea is loosing ground.... I blame gyms ................ not. And to the Dog shit. I think there is nothing wrong with dog poo .... it's organic after all and if its 100 feet or so away from a trail all the better, but Dog shit wrapped in a neet little plastic bag, definitely not organic, you better carry it all the way home with you. |
Old lady H wrote: Most people carry water with them on hikes. As long as your hands aren't totally gross, you can rinse off and empty the cup pretty easily. Then clean the cup more thoroughly next time you're in a bathroom. But be nice and dig a hole. Don't just dump the blood anywhere. If I know there's a chance I might start while out in the wild, I'll pack my cup. It doesn't take much space at all. Keep an eye on the calendar. It's not that hard. And yes, I know that accidents happen and I get why some women might want to have an emergency stash. I'm just saying, it's entirely possible to never ever use tampons and not have an issue while in the woods. |
LindsayH wrote: Totally. The earlier post clearly hadn't considered that there might be some reasons for plastic applicators. I personally hated the things, but it was just an opportunity to pass on information. In the YMMV, area, carrying extra water is sometimes problematic, and, of course, women vary wildly with their flows and the predictability of that. Absolutely no reason to leave that bit of trash behind, though. Further, the whole thing gets more....interesting, if you are a female in bear country. Then, odor proof bags might be prudent. I am a full decade out of that, yay! But cups are a great solution, and way more comfortable, too. I wish they had been around back in the dark ages when I was young. Best, Helen |
