Mountain Project Logo

Rapelling with new people

Em Cos · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 5

Tandem rappelling is not a bad idea, assuming you're comfortable getting very cozy with this person - they won't have to do anything on their own or out of sight. 

Simul-rappelling is a terrible idea. Hard nope. 

With a new climber, I'd do what others have suggested - pre-rig them with extension, explain all the steps, lead the rap, give them a fireman's belay, repeat. 

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

do like others have said and pre-rig them for rappel, and then rappel first yourself so that you can give them a fireman's belay.  make sure that if this person has long hair, or a long beard, that they have it tied up well away from the ATC.  i have seen this unfold a couple times and it isn't pretty....

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
slim wrote:

do like others have said and pre-rig them for rappel, and then rappel first yourself so that you can give them a fireman's belay.  make sure that if this person has long hair, or a long beard, that they have it tied up well away from the ATC.  i have seen this unfold a couple times and it isn't pretty....

I have lost much hair from rappelling.

wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 674
Jake Jones wrote:

Nope.  Not helpless.  If the rope is fixed and you have two strands going down, you can have the noob rappel on one strand while you're belaying them down on another as a backup.  All from the anchor.  All from above.

I've done that with n00bs on single pitch routes but rejected that idea on multi-pitch because I wouldn't trust the n00b to anchor himself properly alone.

Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175
Tyler Froelich wrote:

...

  • you can constantly observe what they're doing to give corrections or affirmations as needed (especially helpful to nervous climbers)  ...

climbing friend,

wat affirmations would you be giving?

"every day in every way, I am rappelling better and better"

"brake hand strong, no PAS thong, next anchor tis not far away"

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

You can't let an inexperienced person go first---especially on multipitch rappels---and simul-rapping with anyone who isn't a real expert is insane.  The only good option is to pre-rig the novice's rappel (with no autblock backup!), go first, and use a fireman's belay.

But a bit more needs to be said.  

1. Beginners have to be taught to rappel and must be given the chance to practice with a belay in a very safe low-key situation.  It is especially important for them to practice strategies for getting over the edge, especially if the anchor is low, and they should understand how to go hands-free with leg raps, since they probably shouldn't be using an autoblock.   It is outright negligent to take someone up a climb and expect them to rap back down it with no previous experience.  Part of the basic instruction involves cautions about getting things caught.  Hair, if long, has to be tucked out of the way and clothes have to be tucked in. A rap device rigged on a long extension will ride above the novice's head and can't catch anything there.

2. A fireman's belay can be harder to apply than some people think.  The best approach is for the first person down to simply leave the rappel rope in their rap device.  If a fireman's belay is necessary, a lot more leverage and control is available through the bottom person's rap device than from just trying to yard on the rap lines with bare hands. (For example, the fireman belayer can jump and take if they've left the ropes in their rap device).

3. While it is true in theory that a stuck person can be rescued from above or below, the reality is that it will be difficult, time-consuming, and dangerous, and all that if the rescuer is really on their game, as  some type of improvisation will likely prove to be necessary.  A rescue from above can be especially problematic and might be impossible, since the rescuer has to prusik down the loaded rappel line and that line can be bound against the rock, making it impossible to slide the prusik knots down.  Best by far to make sure the novice rappeller can't get stuck by instructing and checking for anything that could catch, possibly rigging a long extension so nothing is in catching range, and omitting the autoblock until you are sure that the novice won't get stuck using it.

Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 50
grog m aka Greg McKee wrote:

Going climbing with a new climber up an easy multi pitch (tachycardia in maple canyon). For rappelling I typically have the new person go first so that they do not have to hook up the ATC or I will simo-rappell with them. The problem is if they go first and run in to obstacles they are helpless.

What do you guys do?

Technical drills. Be ready before go.

JIC, a short skills list to aquire before go:

  1. How to use rappel device.
  2. How to back-up rappels.
  3. How to stop in the middle of rappel, do something with both hands, and then continue to rappel.
  4. How to ascend the rope(s).
  5. How to coil/uncoil rope(s) effectively.
  6. How to belay on rappels.
  7. How to attach yourself to belay stations.
  8. How to arrange rappel stations in a group of 3+.
  9. How to clean rappel stations.
  10. How to pull rappel rope(s).
  11. How to stay calm and positive on long rappels.
  12. How to start rappel.
walmongr · · Gilbert AZ · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 130

My sons first ever rappel was a simo rap at age 6 on a multi pitch climb..... End of the ropes knotted both of us on grgri,s and tethered together with a 48in sling.. I also took my brothers law climbing (never been) it was a full rope length. I just top belayed in guide mode and lowered him back down. You could pre do their rappel device and attach them  thread the anchor pull up a bite of rope  figure 8 it to the anchor you rap on the 8  they could unhook the 8 and you fireman belay them down. Tons of ways depending on the situation.. what ever you do make sure it's safe for  the new person they are unaware and relying on your skill not to kill them!!!

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

With a new climber on a multipitch climb you have to be prepared for all the what if's that can happen and how you will fix them - You're responsible for your partner's safety the entire time because they don't have the knowledge to be responsible for it themselves.  If you are not prepared for that responsibility, I would not attempt this endeavor -  introduce them on single pitch.

So... be prepared for what can go wrong.  Be prepared for them to not be a competent belayer...  to not be able to remove/fix your gear...  to panic or fail at a crux and need your assistance.  You're too high up to lower them to the ground... Can you get them out of that?  Then there's your question about rappeling.  You rig everything for them first, before you rappel.  You do a practice rappel close to the ground so they get the idea.  You explain that up high, the rope weight will add additional braking to the device, and they may have to pull up the rope to get moving.    Are you skilled and equipped to ascend back that pitch if you can't talk them out of it?

curt86iroc · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 274
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

Even if you tether yourself to your partner, a simul-rap sounds like it could go bad.

The radest rappel I remember doing is coming off of the upper Tingey's route in LCC.  It's a rap into space over tons of air.  I recall the lines getting twisted up as I sat in space unable to stop a slow spin, but I kept it together, untangled stuff, and got it down.

I feel like rappelling is one of the necessary evils of climbing, but not as evil as having someone else lower you.  That's where I absolutely have to trust the person I'm with.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

A guide and I, many years ago, had to bail on off the North side of Mt. Superior (the winter conditions were too heiness).  He used something different, but seemingly similar to a simul-rappel.  He would tie webbing to a tree and around a bite at the mid-point of the rope.  I was tied into the anchor, and he either rapped off my body weight or the anchor, I can't remember exactly how it was rigged.  Anyhow, then I would go down.  One important thing to note is that while the rope was weighted over the webbing, it never ran over the webbing, creating friction.  Webbing will melt like a hot knife through butter if a loaded rope slides over it.  Anyhow, I'm sure someone can give me a better explanation of the technique.  Long-story-short, he was able to get us down by only leaving bits of webbing behind for the raps we had to do.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

Tethering to a partner on a simul-rap doesn't add much to the safety of the procedure.  A tether enables the two rappellers to pull themselves together; that's about it.  

Knots in the end of the rope are critical in case one of the rappellers loses control. But depending on the length of the ropes and the configuration of the terrain, the other rappeller might impact terrain features before the knot reaches the out-of-control rappeller's device.  If the first person to arrive at the stance mindlessly unclips from the rappel  before the other person has arrived at the stance (this has happened recently, and not to a noob), the other person is going to fall the distance of the rappel until the knot reaches the belay anchor, at which point it either jams there or doesn't...    In this scenario, a tether would stop the falling rappeller much sooner than the knot, which has to ride all the way up the the rap anchor.  I think this is the only actual safety application of a tether.

On the question of loss of control, especially for a beginner, remember that they are rapping on a single strand.  If they are using an ATC-type device, it is quite possible that there will be inadequate friction, and the number of carabiners attaching the device to the harness should be doubled and perhaps even tripled. Even then, they should know the trick for adding friction in mid-rappel (extended rap device required).  If they are using a Grigri and crank too far on the handle,  the best solution is going to be fervent prayer.  Obviously, all these issues need to be sorted out in a safe practice environment before heading for multipitch territory, but by far the best choice is not to simul-rap with a noob.

grog m · · Saltlakecity · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 70

I have done all three methods (me first, them first, simo). Depends on the person and the rapell/pitch really. I was mostly curious what others did. Today I rigged this person up and rapelled under them. Worked out well. 

Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175

climbing friend,

for obvious you rig them good and then you are rappelling first, if you are at all competent and care at all about their ability of not doing dying!

grog m · · Saltlakecity · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 70

Again, depends on the person, depends on the pitch. If I die from it please comment on here "I told him so". 

Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 50
Russ Keane · · Salt Lake · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 392

Lowering from guide mode.....  Yeah, I suppose it's easy, and especially with practice it's no big deal.   But compared to a person rappelling it's quite involved.  I think if someone wants to climb they should be comfortable with rappelling.  It's one of the easiest things in the world.

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 423

Let me get this straight: we're discussing teaching someone how to rappel at the top of a multipitch climb? Is there any conceivable reason we would take someone hundreds of feet off the ground without spending an hour teaching them how to get down first?

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 423

I saw a group at the gym yesterday where a more experienced climber was teaching two less experienced climbers how to belay/rappel with a Munter in preparation for doing a Gunks multipitch. While belaying, one of the climbers was holding the brake strand at an odd angle that caused it to cut across the knot and prevent it from turning over into the frictioning position. She "killed" her climber 4 or 5 times before they identified and fixed the problem. If this had been 500 feet up the side of the cliff instead of 5 feet off the ground over a mat, we'd be reading about it as another death on one of the climbing news websites.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
Post a Reply to "Rapelling with new people"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.