microaggression? or having the overreaction?

Mike Mellenthin wrote:

Reading the comments on her blog, it looks like she got called out on it, apologized claiming ignorance, and edited it out. It was right where the quotes about Orientalism are now.

Ah, I see.

I submit to you that the "booty short" is the troll of the female fashion industry.  The article seemed to be trolling as well.  Maybe this post is too... 

doligo wrote:

Coming from the East Coast, I'm always shocked how non-nonchalantly people use this very non-pc "oriental" term around here in Colorado even in professional settings... 

It's just words people, they only have the significance we give them. Stop constantly looking for reasons to be offended! 

Generally when (usually older) people refer to 'Orientals', they are not trying to insult anyone (If they were, it would make no sense to try to correct them). Sure, when describing a group of people, we should try to use the terms they are most comfortable with. But making a big deal of it or throwing the word 'racist' at decent people who are simply using the terminology that was prevalent when and where they grew up, is ridiculous, and far more disrespectful than those you are chastising..

In ten years, the word 'Asian' will probably be replaced by something else, and saying 'Asian' 'considered racist. And all of us (asians and non-asians alike) will be wondering what these damn kids are getting so upset about..

Khoi wrote:

Using "Oriental" to refer to people is offensive.  Using it to refer inanimate objects is OK (oriental rugs, etc.)  

As for your argument of specificity, the term "Oriental" offers no advantage there.  That term originally referred to the part of the world that today we would label the Middle East.  Where the the Orient Express go?  It didn't go anywhere near China, or Japan, or Korea, or Vietnam, etc.  It went to what today is called Istanbul.  The Department of Oriental Studies at Oxford University studies matter pertaining to the Middle East.

Using "Oriental" to refer to people, offensiveness notwithstanding, does not reduce any ambiguity regarding which groups of people you are referring to.

"Oriental" in reference to people is only considered offensive by some in American English. The term has always meant and referred to of the East, it's just that originally, the understanding of East for westerners ended at Middle East (want to guess what China's understanding of westerners used end at?). And today, the department you referred to covers subject matters of Middle East, South East Asia and Far East countries like China, Japan, and Korea. The term was rarely if ever used as a derogative way, and if it's supposed to invoke certain stereotype, then switching to "Asian" wouldn't help either. 

But if you think "Oriental" is supposed to mean the Middle East, then in this context of referring to Muslim woman the term would be less ambiguous/much more correct than "Asian". In the US, you have a term that's supposed to only refer to part of Asia: it doesn't include the Middle East, and certain not Russia, regardless whether those countries are within the Asian continent all the while lumping Southeast Asian countries with East Asian countries even though ethnically they are quite different.

FWIW, PC or not, many in East Asian countries makes a general distinction between easterners and westerners rather than continental distinctions like Europe/America/Australia, so there is that.

BrianWS wrote:

Because us real "orientals" rarely take offense and often use the term without second thought.

Manufactured outrage.

Calling BS on this.  I grew up in Los Angeles/Orange County area which, as you probably know, has a high population of Asian Americans from all over.  I have NEVER in my 53 years on this earth every heard an Asian under the age of 80 voluntarily use the word "oriental".  I have heard LOTS of Asians express a strong distaste for that terms however.  

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/word-association/n8615?snl=1

Dan Africk wrote:

It's just words people, they only have the significance we give them. Stop constantly looking for reasons to be offended! 

Generally when (usually older) people refer to 'Orientals', they are not trying to insult anyone (If they were, it would make no sense to try to correct them). Sure, when describing a group of people, we should try to use the terms they are most comfortable with. But making a big deal of it or throwing the word 'racist' at decent people who are simply using the terminology that was prevalent when and where they grew up, is ridiculous, and far more disrespectful than those you are chastising..

In ten years, the word 'Asian' will probably be replaced by something else, and saying 'Asian' 'considered racist. And all of us (asians and non-asians alike) will be wondering what these damn kids are getting so upset about..

By your logic, "N" word is just a word. So is "Indian" as referred to a Native American. I agree that they are jut words or used to be just words, but as a society, we've agreed that some words carry certain baggage and stopped using them.  Ironically, coming from East Asia, I didn't use to find word "oriental" offensive. After spending enough time in the NE, I got to accept that this term is non-pc, so when I come across it now especially in business/professional setting, it's a bit jarring. 

Article was too long, didn't read. She used the word "Oriental" and claimed ignorance?! Too funny and sad.

However, I've always support the "words are what you make them argument". Check out a recent SCOTUS case regarding "The Slants".

Strange that No one has noticed that men have been taking very serious'

I agree with Erin Monahan (the author).   I'm sure Cedar was kidding, but it's true what she calls "rape culture" needs to change.

"If you want to be taken seriously as a climber," then focus on SENDING.  Simple.  

If some goober guy was strutting around the crag in PrAna booty shorts and not sending anything, everyone would make fun of him.  If he walked up to the crag in booty shorts and started onsighting 5.12 cracks, people would talk about "that awesome climber who don't give a fuuuuuuuuu what nobody thinks."

Shouldn't we hold females to the same standard?  

Human, "Cedar, are you talking?"

Cedar, "Well..."

Human, "I didn't think so."

Pnelson wrote:

"If you want to be taken seriously as a climber," then focus on SENDING.  Simple.  

If some goober guy was strutting around the crag in PrAna booty shorts and not sending anything, everyone would make fun of him.  If he walked up to the crag in booty shorts and started onsighting 5.12 cracks, people would talk about "that awesome climber who don't give a fuuuuuuuuu what nobody thinks."

Shouldn't we hold females to the same standard?  

You could start by referring to them as "women."  "Female" is an adjective.

The irony is that a) Cedar is the only one who appears to care about booty shorts b) Cedar does NOT actually care about booty shorts and was just being Cedar c) this author is the only one who appears to care about what Cedar said.

But, yeah...let's start another 13 page thread about microaggressions.

Ted Pinson wrote:

You could start by referring to them as "women."  "Female" is an adjective.

"Female" is an adjective and a noun.  Thanks for bringing that topic up, though, I had not heard about this particular linguistic discrepancy between "female" and "woman."

Maybe in ten years, referring to a subject with the noun "female" will be the same as referring to a subject with the noun "Oriental," which has already been beat to death in this thread.

And we all know that the TRUE irony is that Cedar Wright doesn't send anything, either.

But it's totally fine for men to have to wear suits and dress professionally to get ahead?  I support rights for everyone...I support peoples freedom to do what they want, but our current culture is ridiculous.  If I come to work in shorts and sandals guess what? Not going to be taken seriously.  I get it we are completely trying to de-sexualize women except for when they want to be sexualized, but saying that this perpetuates rape culture is a stretch.  

You want to be seen as a professional? DRESS LIKE ONE.  No matter what your sex is. Until they find a way to complete take sexual appeal and desire away from us as humans it will always be there and it's not just Americans.  And it's not just men sexualizing women, it goes both ways. I don't agree with the general misogynistic patterns that the article goes on to describe, but  "Blaming women for not being taken seriously because of their choice of clothing is akin to saying that a woman who was raped was asking for it"?  Really? And saying he's encouraging violence?  

Making statements like that doesn't help to create understanding.  

I am confused what qualifies as "booty shorts". This thread could use more pictures.  Just for clarification

Christian wrote:

"Don't you tell me not to wear booty shorts, I'll wear them if I damn well want to! 

But if I do wear them, don't you dare look at my butt, you sexist asshole!"

I guess the Congressional Booty Office will have to issue a 500 page report on what's allowed

But if you don't look at my butt then I wasted money on these shorts and going to the gym.  Why aren't you noticing me?  But notice my mind, not my shorts that I paid a lot of money for. Do you think my shorts are cute?   

haha this is why men and women don't understand each other.  At least I still don't after 40 something years. 

Scott McMahon wrote:

But it's totally fine for men to have to wear suits and dress professionally to get ahead?...If I come to work in shorts and sandals guess what? Not going to be taken seriously...You want to be seen as a professional? DRESS LIKE ONE.

I suppose you don't work it tech, but if you wear suits, you are pretty much seen as a chump. Regardless, that's a difference between dressed formally vs casually, not conservatively vs provocatively. And even then, your co-workers probably can NOT discriminate you based on how you dress (as long as you're not violating company policies).

But as a climber/spectator to a pro climber, all bets are off.

Dan Africk wrote:

I'll just leave this right here..

http://eveningsends.com/when-feminism-goes-too-far/

(walks away with hands in pockets, whistling innocently..)

climbing friend,

your link of URL web it is not correct. www.weinerbends.com

on other note, this is quite good movie to learn about the asian peoples from, correct?

It's hard to take Erin Monaghan seriously with quotes like "You bet Andrew Bisharat wrote a piece about it in National Geographic’s adventure blog because he jizzes all over anything bro-club."

Isnt she defeating her own argument by writing that?  I'm confused...