Bouldering-Reaching for the next level

Jeff Axelrod wrote:

I also would point out I was accused of being a troll but most of the responsss in this thread have been trolls of me 

Not a single person has recommended an online resource or where to find a coach. Just yelling about ego and grade hunting and outdoor climbing being the only real climbing. One book recommendation- thanks Helen

No one even asked why I climb- just assumptions and trolls. Shameful 

Your post was ridiculous.  No climber actually climbs V6 in 4 months, so either your post was a joke (almost identical threads have been started by trolls and your account was brand new) or your sense of grades was wildly inflated (gyms often do this to stroke their customers' egos).  The latter appears to be the case.  Your posts come across as thinly-veiled boasts, which is probably why you are getting so much crap.  To put it bluntly, nobody cares that you can climb what your gym calls V6. 

People who come to the forums with humility and a genuine interest in learning are generally treated well, unless they ask Googleable questions or ask a question that has already been answered 4 times that day.  As far as your question goes, hiring a coach this early seems premature, but if you think it will help, go for it.  There are also lots of online programs through trainingbeta, etc, but I can't comment on their efficacy.  Probably the best thing you can do is to find people to climb with and watch how they and other people climb.  Ashima Shiraishi is a "little girl" as you put it, yet is one of the strongest climbers in the world (she boulders V15 outdoors); watch how she climbs.

Ted Pinson wrote:

. . . 

 Ashima Shiraishi is a "little girl" as you put it, yet is one of the strongest climbers in the world (she boulders V15 outdoors); watch how she climbs.

Hmm, I don't know if that's great advice.  Of course she has world class technique, but (I assume) she will have a very different body type from the poster.

I've always been a little skeptical of the advice given to men to watch women climb to improve their own climbing.  Women often have greater flexibility and a different center of mass; it may not make any more sense for a man to copy a woman than it would be to tell (most) women to start cranking out pullups so they can climb more like men.

I seem to get the most out of watching people who are about my size (typically men--women who are my height generally don't really look like me, fortunately for all concerned).   I'm not an expert climber or a coach--this is just MHO.  

Jeff, it's not just that you claimed to climb V5 or whatever, it's that we SAW THE VIDEOS. You don't move like a V5 climber, hell, you barely move like a V2-3 climber in terms of instincts and fluidity. Just because you took them down because you didn't like the response doesn't mean they weren't there. If you'd climbed legit-looking V5 well, we'd be having a very different conversation here. 

Nah, you're just projecting. There was nothing wrong with my post or my attitude whatsoever. The grading at my gym is good too, at least as far as indoor gyms go; and that's the opinion of several climbers who climb WAY harder than you do, Greg 

Videos weren't even in the thread until people claimed I was making it up (lol)

As far as people not climbing V5 in <6 months, which is what I wrote, that's not true. I've met multiple people who have accomplished that. Numerous elite climbers on the training beta podcast have had way better results than that as well. So you're simply wrong 

 No crap my technique is terrible. That's the reason I posted here, that and to share my enjoyment in a new activity. I've gone climbing like 30-40 times in my life and have no coach and know nothing 

I sense a lot of inadequacy issues in this thread. 

Btw, Ashima is 16. When I said little girls I meant like 9. Clearly I made a mistake phrasing as such. Sorry. I respect female climbers and their strength. I admit that since I got into climbing I've learned that small children can do incredible athletic things, which I was totally unaware of.

The point stands that it's not so hard that doing it in 6 months is so impossible it deserves trolling. It's totally doable and the people who think it isn't are lying to themselves. If people want to say it's an indoor gym and means nothing well that's their opinion. Means something to me and to my friends and the other people in those gyms who work hard. 

I don't see anyone else posting videos here. Cant say I blame them after the response I got. 

Still, people should put up more videos here. No way they are possibly worse than mine. It would be cool if people gave each other form advice and other feedback but maybe this isn't that kind of place 

Nothing wrong with being proud of a climb! Even a modest one 

Thanks for the positive replies! 

Nivel Egres wrote:

Ashima was bouldering above v10 at the age of 9, in fact a few problems she put up in Central Park are from that time. 

There is nothing wrong with climbing exclusively indoors, plenty of people do that. You will discover that outside grades feel much harder to you since they are more skill dependent (even though physical requirements might be the same or harder indoors, IMHO).  Have you compared how the same grades feel in other gyms in your city? 

The problem with chasing grades is that grades are subjective. What feels hard to you might feel easy to me, even though you might be physically stronger. For example, there are v4s that I am still unable to do while I have sent problems four grades harder. By focusing on movement and the line, you abstract yourself from that problem and change the nature of what you are achieving. 

Lastly, get yourself a bouldering buddy who has the opposite strengths. If you are strong and technically clumsy, climb with dudes/girls that have stellar technique and no strength - you both will benefit. For example, I almost exclusively climb with guys who are much stronger and more dynamic since that's what I suck at.

Yeah she's amazing. I guess 9 year olds can in fact have insane athletic talents and do very difficult things. My mistake again phrasing the way I did, and my misconception as well

"For example, there are v4s that I am still unable to do while I have sent problems four grades harder"

This is fascinating. My climbing partner just sent a V8 but is having trouble with a couple V4/5 that were supposed to be warmups

Re: the climbing partner, good idea. My climbing partner is good but he's much shorter than me and is still developing in terms of technique. He's also a power based climber and has never had a coach. He hit V6 in 6 months and it took him 2+ more years to send V8

Glad to hear your learning from misconceptions.  Sorry if we seem like we're trolling you, too.  It comes with the territory of being new, not knowing how to phrase stuff on a forum (no one comes off as good online as they do in person), and claiming accomplishments that many people find extreme.  I sent my first v5 at around 8 months.  Granted my second wasn't for another month.  At a year, I'm climbing v6's and projecting 7's at my gym. Right now I only climb indoors, so take those grades with a heap of salt.

The problem with indoor grading is that the v scale was designed for outdoors.  As hard as a setter might try, you just can't recreate an outdoor difficulty in a gym, and setters know this.  And with gyms having so many setters, there will inevitably be disagreements over how hard a climb is given different strengths and weaknesses of those climbing.  So that's why people quibble over indoor grades being softer than they would be outside.  But there is nothing wrong with gym climbing, if that's your thing.  It's my thing right now, too.  

What I would recommend is that you don't push yourself to climb super hard stuff too quickly.  Not just because chasing grades is subjective, but mostly because you will more than likely get really really badly injured.  Muscles grow and strengthen fast.  But tendons are very slow to get stronger.  If you don't let your fingers tendons and pulleys heal and recover, they will dislocate or even break, setting you back months of progress because you won't be able to climb.  The same will go for your shoulders and hips.  Get yourself some finger resistance bands and use them on your days off.  Do reverse wrist curls to counter balance the muscle growth in your forearms, and find some good shoulder  exercises to stabilize your sockets.  

Thats why it is also very important stretch for at least 20 minutes, and to warm up on easier problems for at least 30 minutes before working your project.  Injury rates are very high for newer climbers if they don't watch how they prepare for their progress.

best of luck.  Post more vids if you have them, if you'd like technique feedback.  But the best feedback will come from others at your gym at the moment you are climbing

Indoor ratings seem to be so inconsistent and often just "wrong" that it doesn't make much sense to base your progress on whatever numbers the route setter slapped on a series of holds.

For a number of years, my experience in indoor bouldering is mostly at one gym (Movement in Boulder, CO), so I'm making a bit of a generalization, but my perception is it's accurate based on lots of similar comments.

Many people seem to feel an urge to defend the gym's grades by saying things like "you're good at certain types of moves so they feel easy and bad at other moves so they feel hard."  That is true for everyone but doesn't change the fact that my gym frequently just slaps random numbers on problems.  Anyone can see this by watching large numbers of people try two different problems (that are more-or-less similar styles) and see a much higher success rate on the "harder" problem.

Human nature being what it is, most people gravitate to the supersoft rated problems and avoid the sandbagged ones.  It may be better not even to put ratings on indoor problems.

My gym slaps a number on a sheet of laminated paper next to the start, but hangs a sharpie next to it with a section for climbers to check off whether it was easier, harder, or about average for that particular grading.  I've definitely found some to be marked way off.  eg. a V5 that I'd say was no harder than a 3-.  And a V4 that no one agreed was easier than a V5.  In some cases, the setter adjusts that grade.  In others, they change some of the holds around to more accurately mimic the supposed grade.  Sometimes it works, others are still off a little.  But not enough to get hung up about.  

Jeff Axelrod wrote:

Nah, you're just projecting. There was nothing wrong with my post or my attitude whatsoever. The grading at my gym is good too, at least as far as indoor gyms go; and that's the opinion of several climbers who climb WAY harder than you do, Greg 

First of all, there are plenty of people who climb way harder than me. That doesn't mean they inherently know what they're talking about with regards to consistency of grades relative to respective gyms and/or outside. Have you climbed in other gyms? Can you say with certainty that your gym is spot-on grade wise? Until you actually have real experience across the country (which I do, considering I make a living doing this), you can't say for sure. And then you post videos that look, well, ridiculous. And then you claim there's nothing wrong with your attitude when multiple different people seem have come to the opposite conclusion. Have people climbed V5 that quickly before? Sure. But it's unlikely. And the only way it actually counts is if you're doing it outside (if you want it to have relevance or significance for other people. If you don't, that's absolutely fine, but then why the  hell are you posting about it on a forum for other people to see?)

Greg Redlawsk wrote:

First of all, there are plenty of people who climb way harder than me. That doesn't mean they inherently know what they're talking about with regards to consistency of grades relative to respective gyms and/or outside. Have you climbed in other gyms? Can you say with certainty that your gym is spot-on grade wise? Until you actually have real experience across the country (which I do, considering I make a living doing this), you can't say for sure. And then you post videos that look, well, ridiculous. And then you claim there's nothing wrong with your attitude when multiple different people seem have come to the opposite conclusion. Have people climbed V5 that quickly before? Sure. But it's unlikely. And the only way it actually counts is if you're doing it outside (if you want it to have relevance or significance for other people. If you don't, that's absolutely fine, but then why the  hell are you posting about it on a forum for other people to see?)

I'm posting it on a forum for other people to see for advice on resources or where to look to become a better climber, which is exactly what I actually wrote in my post. Work on that reading comprehension. Jackass 

Jeff, no need to become hostile.  The only way to become better is to climb more.  At some point, in a few years, training may be required to reach that next level.  But at your current stage, specific training will actually hurt you.  I know it sounds counter intuitive, but your body is just not ready handle climbing-specific training like hangboards and campus boards.  Tendon and pulley damage is no joke, not to mention shoulder and hip injuries, and very easy to do this early in your career.  I've been climbing for a year, and my hangboard had seen maybe 3 uses in the last 10 months ever since I learned not to use it.

You will gain much more from just climbing this early.  Do some core workouts, strengthen your extensor muscles, and work on flexibility.  

Other than that, build up a tougher skin for people telling you what you don't want to hear.  Especially on a forum, you'll get a lot of that

You usually learn more by listening rather than talking, surely there must be some advice on here about breaking through plateaus and training. 

But if you put the videos up I'll be happy to tell you what you are doing wrong as will many others  

Take up rock climbing

USBRIT Ross wrote:

Take up rock climbing

Lol

A lot of potential gold in this thread

Jeff Axelrod wrote:

I'm posting it on a forum for other people to see for advice on resources or where to look to become a better climber, which is exactly what I actually wrote in my post. Work on that reading comprehension. Jackass 

Relax.

i believe v6 is simply 60% of your bodyweight. find an 18mm edge and hang with 4 x 2 fingers (both hands) for 5 seconds. if you can, you're v5. to test v6, add 20% of your bodyweight and try the same hang again. for v7, add 40%. a 140 lb person would hang on a 18 mm ledge with an additional 56 lb for 5 seconds. the total weight would be 196 lbs. so that each hand is weighted at 0.7 bodyweight.  

Nivel Egres wrote:

Could you write out the full progression up to v10?

Sure...10% additional body weight (1 handed) for every V grade? So V10 would be 1 handed BW hang & V15 would be +50% BW. Considering Alex Megos can do that for 10 seconds @ +50% BW & he can boulder ~V16, the formula seems legit, right?

(tongue-in-cheek)