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3-person multi-pitch alt method

Ryan M Moore · · Philadelphia, PA · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 35

For following on a single strand of half rope the only concern I have is If the rope is running over a jagged edge that would give me pause even with a single. For leading it's jagged edge and increased rope stretch. Not even remotely worried about the rope breaking.

Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651
Ryan M Moore wrote:

For following on a single strand of half rope the only concern I have is If the rope is running over a jagged edge that would give me pause even with a single. For leading it's jagged edge and increased rope stretch. Not even remotely worried about the rope breaking.

Half ropes do not actually stretch more than a single, the blanket statement isn't true. Look at the specs of the individual rope you plan to use. I've taken lead falls on one strand of Mammut Phoenix and it's a hard catch. For ledgy alpine terrain I intend it for that's perfect.

Mammut Eternity 9.8mm has 6.8% static and 30% dynamic elongation
Mammut Phoenix 8mm half has 8% static and 29% dynamic elongation

Beal booster 9.7 single has 9.7% static and 38% dynamic elongation
Beal ice line 8.1 half has 11.5% static and 37% dynamic elongation

Maxim Platinum 9.8 has ≤ 10% static and ≤ 40% dynamic elongation
Maxim Unity 8 half has ≤ 10% static and ≤ 40% dynamic elongation

Ryan M Moore · · Philadelphia, PA · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 35

Are those elongation measurements using the same test? I always thought half rope specs were for  55kg weight or is that just the impact? 

Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651
Ryan M Moore wrote:

Are those elongation measurements using the same test? I always thought half rope specs were for  55kg weight or is that just the impact? 

Good question. I thought the weight was only for impact measurement, but I could be wrong. 

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

The half-rope dynamic elongations are for a 55 kg weight.  I don't know about the static ones offhand.

EDIT: Static elongation for both singles and halfs is computed using an 80 kg weight. UIAA standards limit it to 10% for single ropes and 12% for one strand of a half rope.

Joe Garibay · · Ventura, Ca · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 86

Brian, I don't live far from you, I climb multi pitch all over around here. Have been up walls in parties of as many as six. If you ever want to get together, I'll show you first hand a variety of ways. Feel free to drop me a message any time. 

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 423
mbk wrote:

Mike Barter covers end-roping around 4:30: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpHOvDJlXlQ

Chauvin and Coppollilo say:  

https://books.google.com/books?id=-Ft7DgAAQBAJ&lpg=PA155&ots=K_HxLnzuuE&dq=end-roping&pg=PA155#v=onepage&q=end-roping&f=false

"end-roping is an aggressive technique that should be used sparingly.  The terrain to use this should be fairly easy and low-angled for fifth-class climbing.  In effect, it should almost be easy enough for the team to move together"

That Mike Barter video reiterates what Chauvin and Caoppollilo said: "End-roping is for 5.6 and under. For 5.7 and up consider half ropes."

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

it's kind of silly to give an arbitrary grade at which the technique is applicable/non-applicable.  for some parties it wouldn't be appropriate at any grade.  for some parties it could be appropriate for much harder grades.  for some routes it probably wouldn't be appropriate for anybody due to the layout of the route, or rock quality, or whatever of the route.

is it me or is the description of end-roping more complicated than it should be?  in particular, it seems like the transition method they describe is kind of wonky.

mbk · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0
slim wrote:

it's kind of silly to give an arbitrary grade at which the technique is applicable/non-applicable.  for some parties it wouldn't be appropriate at any grade.  for some parties it could be appropriate for much harder grades.  for some routes it probably wouldn't be appropriate for anybody due to the layout of the route, or rock quality, or whatever of the route.

I agree.   I like the language used by C&C to describe their criteria.

is it me or is the description of end-roping more complicated than it should be?  in particular, it seems like the transition method they describe is kind of wonky.

Yes, if you take this definition of "wonky":

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wonky

characteristic of, relating to, or suggestive of a wonk: such as

a :  preoccupied with arcane details or procedures in a specialized field 

She can get wonky about the economy when she wants to, but what sets her apart is her ability to tell a coherent, populist story about it in a way that other members of her party are either unwilling or unable to do. — Rebecca Traister

b :  used by or appealing to wonks… 

one of those politicians who actually find pleasure in the often-wonky details of public policy. — John Powers

Since the C&C book is, literally, The Mountain Guide Manual, I think "wonky" is exactly how it should be.   Wonky is certainly what I was hoping for when I bought it.  :-)

rockhard · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 75

Method ive used is you belay the second as normal..the second trails a second rope and clips it into the necessary pro. Then you fix the trail line and have the 3rd person tr solo. Then the second can start leading the next pitch immediately 

Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,241

The method I use involves saving a lot of weight and time and basically involves never climbing with a third climber. The secret is my personality.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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