Getting your SPI

Hobo Greg wrote:

To me guiding is for those new to the sport. Who gets guided on multipitch? Do these people have zero climbing friends?

Experienced climbers get guided on multipitch for a number of reasons:

1. They need a stronger leader.
2. They want someone familiar with the area (the climb, approach and descent).  No wasted time finding the route, descent, etc.
3. And here's the big one: A guide is available when you want, where you want.  Your friends may not be able to the days off, or have the money for the trip, or any number of other reasons.

Matt Foley wrote:

It is also insightful to hear someone with a certain level of certification (are you at the highest cert level available? Or do you consider YOUR current level "enough" even though there are higher levels available to you?) bash a lower level of certification from their very own organization. The fact of the matter, independent of anyone's opinion, is that SPI is a great certification for someone to work at the level it is designed for.

I'm glad you can tell me (ifmga guide and SPI) the "facts" about my industry.  Long live the grand tradition of Mountain Project.  I'll be ending my involvement with this thread here, but I'm available on multiple channels if any guides or prospective guides would like to chat.

Ok so your level is ok even though there are higher levels than yours but certs lower than yours have no reason to exist. Got it.

Ok, you pulled me back.  Please educate me as to these higher certifications.

I'm sorry I missed where you said you were at the top of the chart. There is no doubt that is a huge accomplishment. Still I am getting from you that certain certs below that shouldn't exist. Or do you just have a problem with the SPI?

In my opinion by the time you should be taking a certification test for something you should be very proficient at it so much so that you are hardly being taught by the course material.

They have really specific ways that they want you to handle all kins of situations. from anchors, belaying, lowering to rescue.  I have been climbing over 35 years, have over 50 FA's many ground up and multiptch.   I have taught many new climbers and brought countless less experienced climbers up big ice climbs. I have no doubts that I could guide the big moderats on canon safely yet I seriously doubt that I could pass the SPI test. if I did pass It would be a bit of guess work based on all the time I have spent climbing with and soloing past guides and paying attention to how they do things.  I don't think i would have much of a chance to pass the Rock instructor course and test. they want  you to climb really strong and I am 55years old with lots of worn out parts.  I would have to take a summer off from my carpentry job to have a chance to pass that test.  I totaly get why they want you to climb so hard.  You have to be super fast on big routes, be able to  cover moderate terrain safely with little or no gear. I can do that pretty well on the 5.7/5.8 classics but might have a hard time onsighting some of the stuff they put you on. They put A friend of mine on Retaliation@ cathedral. only 5.9 but pretty sandbagged and scary/hard to protect.. heck i feel like no problem  I can lead Sleeping beauty 10d but no way would i ever guide or even try to lead first pitch of Childrens Crusade.... I pick my battles pretty well and they want you to be able to do anything, any time anywhere. 

Hobo Greg wrote:

I'm gonna call to check on this but does anyone know if you can take the course and exam at separate locations?

You can.

I took it and it is a great way to learn the skill set to be a cragging and canyoneering guide. It teaches you industry standard techniques.  I've seen many guides that are experienced but do some dumb stuff.

Lots covered here I want to add this. 

The levels of certification within the AMGA are about the terrain you can guide and instruct. The standards are the minimum and continuing professional development should be the goal for any professional. The prerequisites to take the course and exam and the 5 days it takes to get a SPI barely scratch the surface on the body of knowledge that one could and should  accumulate if they want to be a good guide. SPI certification is not enough to guide for my company. It is one of the things we look for in guides, not the only thing.

The problem, in general and specifically for Tico I think, is that this low level of training and certification is looked at as the end goal, not the beginning of the path, by some. 

I guide single pitch, short multi-pitch rock and ice and uncomplicated ski terrain. The AMGA offers training and certification for these types of terrain so I took the courses and the exams. I also read, practiced, participated in professional development clinics, skied, climbed and guided a shit ton. I am not a mountain guide but I do think I am good at what I do in the terrain in which I work.

This in not my hobby, I don't guide for beer or low pay. I ask for a wage that is based on my training and experience and is line with the the world wide industry. I pay my guides very well. I do not over estimate my abilities or guide beyond them. I accurately represent myself. I mentor occasionally but only if I see real commitment. I do these things because I believe that guiding is a real profession and I want to support that idea so that we do not have to have a debate about the specific value of training or the worth of guides in general. 

A good reason enough to take the AMGA SPI Course and Assessment is discipline specific.  The RGC will not prepare you to manage larger ratios in top rope terrain, and a lot of work in the US is doing that--entry level training and experiences.  It also sets one up with prerequisites rope skills to enroll in the RGC, which is the gateway to the Guide Track programs.  It's also low cost (low commitment).  

Want to use your SPI training and certification to work in larger terrain? Sorry, it doesn't cover that.  However, one needs to start somewhere. 

Sam Keller wrote:

800$

Seriously? That's ridiculous.

3 day course. 2 day test. $800.00.  Seems normal...

Healyje wrote:

Seriously? That's ridiculous.

What's ridiculous? A $800 investment in training that will  help you to make $100-$225 a day, plus tips with my company?

I think that problem is that the general public has a good handle on the costs of training and certification and not a clue what a certified guide can make.

cdec wrote:

What's ridiculous? A $800 investment in training that will  help you to make $100-$225 a day, plus tips with my company?

After a single course? Really?

Healyje wrote:

After a single course? Really?

I would most likely pass on someone with that had only the prereq's and the cert under their belt. The same is true of someone with years of experience and no SPI. If you don't have it you don't guide.

The SPI cert is one of the requirements for us. There are other things we take into consideration when hiring, past work and recreational climbing experience, first aid training, ability to read, write and speak full sentences, general overall competence, etc.

But yes if you are what we are looking for in a guide and already have or are willing to take one $800 course that is what you can make.

For anyone not familiar with the SPI course, it is not a "learn to climb" course. 

The premis would be that you already have a depth of experience and continue to work to gain more experience. 100 bucks a day is minimum wage INMOP .....

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

100 bucks a day is minimum wage INMOP .....

actually $150 is the minimum max is $400