Petzl Grigri+ Purchased. Used it. My thoughts on the device.

I too have been using it lately. Many people ask me how it differs from the GRIGRI 2, so I made a quick little video comparison of the two: http://www.e10pitches.com/adventure/grigri-plus-vs-grigri-2

Sean H wrote:

WTF are you talking about dude? Seriously, how does MP draw out this shit? GriGri's work. They auto-lock...about 99.a lot of 9s% more than an ATC will. Pros use them, even trad and alpine climbing. Often. In another comment you said they don't work for "lead belay." I'll bet you that pretty much 99+% of any video of anyone online climbing anything hard will be belayed on a GriGri. Yet you'll spout otherwise.

But yeah, grigri's suck, are only good for TR, and don't autolock. Right.

Lol. Read my post again. Sometimes Gris don't lock and people get hurt. They are great...until they aren't.

20 kN wrote:

Untrained novices panic and squeeze the GriGri, not properly trained climbers belaying with the device as it's intended by Petzl. When is the last time you saw an experienced climber panic, freeze up and pinch open the cam on a GriGri dropping his climber to the deck? It's not an issue of design, it's an issue of experience, training and competency. The clear majority of the so-called "training" that exists at the crag is "hey bro, this is a GriGri, pull on the handle to lower, that's about all you need to know." That's how many climbers are trained and when that’s how you’re trained on everything climbing related, accidents are only a question of when, not if.

I have seen experienced climbers panic and squeeze the Gri and drop someone. I have also seen experienced climbers forget to clip in to an auto belay and deck. My point is simply that the Gri has a greater tendency to be misused because of the design and people get hurt because of that.

Tradoholic wrote:

I have seen experienced climbers panic and squeeze the Gri and drop someone. I have also seen experienced climbers forget to clip in to an auto belay and deck. My point is simply that the Gri has a greater tendency to be misused because of the design and people get hurt because of that.

Then I want to be belayed by an experienced belayer, not merely an experienced climber!  Just wondering, what kind of fall by your partner is panic inducing?  It seems that muscle memory would get an experienced belayer to hold onto the brake end of the rope if someone falls, not squeeze the grigri.  Personally I never felt the urge to squeeze the gri if someone falls... if anything my left hand also snaps to the brake end.  I've seen misuse of the grigri though.  I've seen misuse of the ATC, which scares me more. 

Regarding this antipanic lever of the grigri+, it seems to be only for when you pull back the handle and rotate, and not for the thumb override?  So it doesn't help for a panicky belayer who squeezes in panic, but only a panicky belayer who somehow panics when lowering?  Who panics when lowering? Haven't tried the grigri+ yet. 

I belay my climber on whatever device they feel most comfortable with, allowing them to choose from an ATC or grigri (my 2 types of belay devices).

Tradoholic wrote:

Lol. Read my post again. Sometimes Gris don't lock and people get hurt. They are great...until they aren't.

Then you must not understand math or logic. ABS brakes save lives. I'm willing to bet, sometimes they fail, and people die. I bet seat belts and airbags fail. In fact, I'm sure a great many of things man has created to make a certain thing or situation safer has failed.

That doesn't change the fact that the rest of the time the safety mechanism is better than nothing. Even experienced, attentive belayers will lapse, or the climber will fall when it just wasn't expected. I'm sure anyone who's climbed long enough has been caught offguard. For the most part, we've also probably caught the fall anyway, as we should. But with a GriGri, likely the belay device did our job for us.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to argue though, because I don't see your point. Because something isn't 100% infallible, it is worthless, or not better than the alternative?

sherb wrote:

Then I want to be belayed by an experienced belayer, not merely an experienced climber!  Just wondering, what kind of fall by your partner is panic inducing?  It seems that muscle memory would get an experienced belayer to hold onto the brake end of the rope if someone falls, not squeeze the grigri.  Personally I never felt the urge to squeeze the gri if someone falls... if anything my left hand also snaps to the brake end.  I've seen misuse of the grigri though.  I've seen misuse of the ATC, which scares me more. 

Regarding this antipanic lever of the grigri+, it seems to be only for when you pull back the handle and rotate, and not for the thumb override?  So it doesn't help for a panicky belayer who squeezes in panic, but only a panicky belayer who somehow panics when lowering?  Who panics when lowering? Haven't tried the grigri+ yet. 

I belay my climber on whatever device they feel most comfortable with, allowing them to choose from an ATC or grigri (my 2 types of belay devices).

Usually people panic when caught off guard. The fact that Petzl has added a "panic" safety feature proves that this has been a problem. The Gri provides a false sense of security.

Sean H wrote:

Then you must not understand math or logic. ABS brakes save lives. I'm willing to bet, sometimes they fail, and people die. I bet seat belts and airbags fail. In fact, I'm sure a great many of things man has created to make a certain thing or situation safer has failed.

That doesn't change the fact that the rest of the time the safety mechanism is better than nothing. Even experienced, attentive belayers will lapse, or the climber will fall when it just wasn't expected. I'm sure anyone who's climbed long enough has been caught offguard. For the most part, we've also probably caught the fall anyway, as we should. But with a GriGri, likely the belay device did our job for us.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to argue though, because I don't see your point. Because something isn't 100% infallible, it is worthless, or not better than the alternative?

There are better, cheaper, lighter, and more versatile devices on the market. Plus, you can rappel with them! The Gri is a total rip off and dangerous compared to the alternatives. I am arguing here because I am offended that slick marketing has overcome people's ability to make a common sense judgement regarding what belay device to buy.

Tradoholic wrote:

There are better, cheaper, lighter, and more versatile devices on the market. Plus, you can rappel with them! The Gri is a total rip off and dangerous compared to the alternatives. I am arguing here because I am offended that slick marketing has overcome people's ability to make a common sense judgement regarding what belay device to buy.

Please link to cheaper, lighter and more versatile assisted locking belay device. Also GTFO this isn't another grigri hate thread there's a thread specifically for it if you want to drone on about how unsafe they are go there, also provide some fucking numbers to back up your claims.

that guy named seb wrote:

Please link to cheaper, lighter and more versatile assisted locking belay device. Also GTFO this isn't another grigri hate thread there's a thread specifically for it if you want to drone on about how unsafe they are go there, also provide some fucking numbers to back up your claims.

I have used the Eldrid Megajul and the Mammut Smart Alpine both are excellent alternatives. 

Sorry I don't have time to find numbers regarding Gri induced injuries but I have seen very bad consequences from the panic problem. Just one broken back to a Gri Gri trusting climber is enough for me to swear it off forever. Again, the fact that Petzl has added a "panic" feature only proves that I'm right!

Tradoholic wrote:

I have used the Eldrid Megajul and the Mammut Smart Alpine both are excellent alternatives. 

Sorry I don't have time to find numbers regarding Gri induced injuries but I have seen very bad consequences from the panic problem. Just one broken back to a Gri Gri trusting climber is enough for me to swear it off forever. Again, the fact that Petzl has added a "panic" feature only proves that I'm right!

Neither are assisted breaking and both are infact shite at high fall factor falls. The "panic problem" you describe is when a shit belayer grabs the whole device when paying out slack and then clamps down on it in a fall, the actual "panic feature" is for when you are lowering the person down to the ground so stop talking complete shit. Also look at all these common injuries regarding airbags http://www.edwardslawok.com/about-airbag-injuries.html well documented, this happens all the time yet you don't take the fucking air bags out of your car.

Tim Lutz wrote:

great logic here!   I'm putting cutting off the seatbelts on my truck on my list of things to do today

The analogies to seat belts and air bags are bunk. There aren't better products on the market that protect you in the event of a car crash. There are belay devices that protect you better than a Gri.

that guy named seb wrote:

Neither are assisted breaking and both are infact shite at high fall factor falls. The "panic problem" you describe is when a shit belayer grabs the whole device when paying out slack and then clamps down on it in a fall, the actual "panic feature" is for when you are lowering the person down to the ground so stop talking complete shit. Also look at all these common injuries regarding airbags http://www.edwardslawok.com/about-airbag-injuries.html well documented, this happens all the time yet you don't take the fucking air bags out of your car.

Right, I forgot about the TWO ways people can panic with a Gri and hurt somebody. Thanks for bringing that up and showing the Gri is even worse than I've been describing.

Tim Lutz wrote:

No. There aren't.  Stop spreading false information.  This isn't Faux news.  Not all tin-hat opinions have equal weight to real life belaying.

Explain how they aren't bunk. There aren't alternatives to seat belts and air bags. There are alternatives to the Gri. 

For the record, the ATC isn't better, but the Smart, Megajul, etc are. 

Tradoholic wrote:

Actually both the smart and mega lock up, not sure where you are getting that fake news.

Tradoholic wrote:

Explain how they aren't bunk. There aren't alternatives to seat belts and air bags. There are alternatives to the Gri. 

For the record, the ATC isn't better, but the Smart, Megajul, etc are. 

You are so horrendously misinformed on the limitations of smart and maga jul are it's pointless even arguing with you look up the thread of the megajul and look at the UIAA assisted breaking criteria. Inform your self before you start talking shit about something you don't have any idea about. 

Tim Lutz wrote:

 they can also both the over-ridden in a panic just like the Gri.  

so, explain how the Smart or Mega are better again?  oh right, you never did!

try either one in a factor two fall and let us know how that works out

ever been in a factor 2 fall, being such a rad trad and all?

The smart and the mega unlock with an expansion motion, the Gri unlocks with a contraction motion, a panic motion.

If you have been taking factor 2 falls you've got some more important issues to worry about than the belay.

Tradoholic wrote:

Explain how they aren't bunk. There aren't alternatives to seat belts and air bags. There are alternatives to the Gri. 

For the record, the ATC isn't better, but the Smart, Megajul, etc are. 

As (probably) one of the worlds leading authorities on belay devices and having tested a vast number of them (that is laboratory testing not just belaying) and having owning most of the usual ones I use a GriGri 1 and an ATC XP for my personal climbing. The Smart sucks a bit, the MegaJul sucks big time! 

that guy named seb wrote:

You are so horrendously misinformed on the limitations of smart and maga jul are it's pointless even arguing with you look up the thread of the megajul and look at the UIAA assisted breaking criteria. Inform your self before you start talking shit about something you don't have any idea about. 

If you have never used the Mega or Smart, you don't have a point of reference, now do you? So, you actually don't know what you're talking about.

Look guys, I kinda tired of your baseless attacks, you don't believe me? Fine. I'm just offering an alternative. Go ahead spend $100+ on a Gri and a rappel device, be my guest but there's a better way. If you don't think so then don't try.

Tradoholic wrote:

Look guys, I kinda tired of your baseless attacks, you don't believe me? Fine. I'm just offering an alternative. Go ahead spend $100+ on a Gri and a rappel device, be my guest but there's a better way. If you don't think so then don't try.

There is a difference between not believing you and knowing you are wrong. Many of us have "tried" and still don´t consider the Smart/MegaJul a better way.