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Areas with Close Bolts

Mateo San Pedro · · OR · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 266

I am going to come off like an asshole but this is my honest advice. Don't seek out more areas with closely spaced bolts. It's good if you are just learning but once you've got the basics down and know how to lead, push yourself mentally. In fact, I don't like closely spaced bolts at all. Having to stop every 5 moves to fumble with a draw takes your mind off of the climbing and saps you of useful energy. Areas like Smith Rock are notorious for being run out (and it isn't even that bad) and is my favorite place to climb. 

Instead of asking for places where bolts are close together, the better question is how do I work on feeling more comfortable on runout climbs. It would be better for your long term climbing to take some practice big whips because then you can go to any area and not worry if you should travel somewhere that has a reputation for spicy bolting. Plus it makes you try harder when you're staring down at your last bolt 10 feet below you. I almost feel like I onsight harder and try longer when I'm looking at whipping but I'm more likely to take if the bolts are always at my waist. Just another opinion.

In short, book a flight out to Smith, get on Dreamin' or Heinous Cling and take the ride! You might just love it!

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
Ted Pinson wrote:

Guys, arguing trad vs sport ethics is pointless.  It's a different appeal and nobody is arguing that your slab routes should have any more than 2 bolts per 100'.  When it comes to sport climbing, however, there's no good reason for large bolt spacing.  It's the same silly argument as stick clipping; nobody thinks you're a badass because you twisted an ankle on a 5.9.

Being a good trad climber will make you a better sport climber. That's a fact!

Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,648
Tradoholic wrote:

Being a good trad climber will make you a better sport climber. That's a fact!

I think you mixed that one up, being a good SPORT climber will make you a better trad climber.  That's a fact, it's not so true the other way around.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
Ken Noyce wrote:

I think you mixed that one up, being a good SPORT climber will make you a better trad climber.  That's a fact, it's not so true the other way around.

Both are true and that's the point.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252

Oh, I think both are absolutely true.  Sport climbing gets you stronger, which transfers to trad climbing, and trad climbing gets you bolder.  I think the latter only really happens in the beginning; once you're not scared above a bolt, you're not scared.  I do have to say that after trad climbing, when I got back on bolts, I really coudn't give a sh!t about falling above bolts anymore, because "it's a bolt!"  It's kind of like when you find a tree to sling halfway up a route...

Anyways, I still think close bolting fits better with sport ethos.  Boldness =/= strength, in fact they appear to be negatively correlated.  Who are the strongest climbers?  Boulderers.  Who are the boldest climbers?  Trad climbers.  'Nuff said. ;)

BrianWS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 790

Widely spaced bolts can be as safe as a tightly bolted route - it all depends on the amount of thought that went into equipping the line. Stances, difficulty between bolts, rock quality, direction of the fall, etc.

A great example is a fine line at the New - Freaky Stylee. It's an 80 foot route with five bolts. Each bolt is at a solid stance, and you never are at risk of groundfall (gear or stick clip to the first bolt, as the developer intended) if you fall in between bolts. No nasty pendulums or other falling hazards.

Compare that to many of the routes recently squeezed in by a particular developer at the nearby Meadow - lots of bolts per route, but the routes end up being sketchy. Pendulums, ledge falls, and horrible stances for the grade on his moderate climbs make an 80 ft route with 10 bolts much riskier for leader fall injuries.

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422

"friendly bolt spacing"

I think this is going to be the name of my next trad FA...

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
Healyje wrote:

"friendly bolt spacing"

I think this is going to be the name of my next trad FA...

My next trad route is going to be called "controversial bolt spacing".

Austin Baird · · SLC, Utah · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 95
Adam Hammershøi wrote:

Many routes in City of Rocks are very friendly with the bolting

I struggle to think of a single climb in the City that felt overbolted. It's usually the opposite.

Greg Barnes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,060

"Closely spaced bolts" is an ever-changing idea. In the 1980s it was 30 feet apart, when sport climbing was brand new it was 20 feet apart, as time goes on it gets closer and closer (especially with many used to gym bolt spacing).

Many "early sport" areas are now "runout" in many people's minds - this includes early sport routes at City of Rocks, Owens, Shelf, and many other areas listed here. As many folks advised upthread, if you are this worried about sport climbing bolt spacing, get a stick clip and learn how to use it!

Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,648
Dylan B. wrote:

Nick's absolutely right. I'm the weeniest of weenies climbing over my gear, but the more I do it the more fearless I become when there's a bolt below my feet.  

Maybe trad climbing helps some people with sport climbing, but for me personally, trad climbing does nothing to improve my sport climbing.  Sport climbing on the other hand helps my trad climbing immensely, both in strength and in confidence.  Falling on bolts makes me more trusting of gear in general, and the improved strength from sport climbing makes it so that I am much more confident on runout trad climbs.  

Richard Heying · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 40

Dont worry about the spacing just have fun climbing 

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
Ken Noyce wrote:

Lol, well you shouldn't trust your gear based on your falls into bolts.

Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,648
Tradoholic wrote:

Lol, well you shouldn't trust your gear based on your falls into bolts.

If you know how to place the gear correctly, there's no reason you shouldn't.  Most fear of falling is completely irrational unless you are in a situation where you know you can't fall (ledges, bad gear, or whatever).  Getting over that irrational fear by falling on bolts is a great way to do it.

Frank Stein · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 205

So far in this thread folks have identified as  areas that arevery closely bolted as Owens, Shelf, Enchanted Tower, Smith, The New, The Red, "all  of Europe," and even the not sport crag of City of Rocks.  Can we just say "all sport climbing," or "everything that is not North Carolina," and be done? :-/

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
Ken Noyce wrote:

If you know how to place the gear correctly, there's no reason you shouldn't.  Most fear of falling is completely irrational unless you are in a situation where you know you can't fall (ledges, bad gear, or whatever).  Getting over that irrational fear by falling on bolts is a great way to do it.

You should be very afraid of falling on gear AND bolts, sometimes the gear holds and you still get fucked up.

Brie Abram · · Celo, NC · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 493
Alex Rosa wrote:

HCR even has perma draws and I over heard a rumor not too long ago that the majority of climbers as well as guides lower off gear rather than rappel because it's so well maintained. They justify this because of the fee hcr  charge for a climbing permit. - most of it goes back to maintanence. 

As an NC climber for almost 20 years, I can assure you that I and many other folks lower on anchors here in NC anytime it makes sense. I'm aware of the argument for rapping, and it's not compelling.

There are permadraws in Linville Gorge

Alexander K · · The road · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 130
Brian Abram wrote:

As an NC climber for almost 20 years, I can assure you that I and many other folks lower on anchors here in NC anytime it makes sense. I'm aware of the argument for rapping, and it's not compelling.

There are permadraws in Linville Gorge

Yes to this. If something has anchors where the chain, quick links etc... touch then I assume that the person who added the gear intended for lowering to occur. That said there isn't a ton of single pitch in NC with bolted anchors.

josh holmes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 215

Maple Canyon 

Brie Abram · · Celo, NC · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 493
Alexander K wrote:

Yes to this. If something has anchors where the chain, quick links etc... touch then I assume that the person who added the gear intended for lowering to occur. That said there isn't a ton of single pitch in NC with bolted anchors.

The High Country has quite a bit of stuff relative to the rest of NC: Little Wilson, Sunken Treasure, Dump, Middle and Lower Hawksbill, Upper Creek, Black Fork, and some of Ship Rock. I don't really worry about what the person who equipped it intended; they should know that their stuff is gonna get lowered on and let that guide their decisions on whether and how they are motivated to equip

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Sport Climbing
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