Anchoring At The Top Of A Sport Route...

John Wilder wrote:The prucell prusik is oddly popular with a certain set of people and I've never understood why. It's super bulky and you can only shorten it half of its length. Two things that, imho, make it a non starter.

Two major advantages to sewn chains: it is length adjustable without unclipping and it is dynamic if you fall on it. Similarly better when compared to slings. I think they are super convenient despite the bulk and only costs you a piece of rope. Being able to shorten it to only half the length is typically sufficient.

I can't be the only one ...but I'm in the "go in direct on slings into the chains/bolts... untie... pass though and rapp" camp. I never liked the "bight pass" personally seemed like to many steps.

I've done the "bight pass through" but it is sometimes a pretty big pain to get two pieces of rope through a chain link whenever rings aren't there.

Share your thoughts: ~30" 6mm cord loop, closed with double fisherman's, attached to belay loop with a lark's head, other end single strand cloved to a locker. Locker goes direct to anchor, clove adjusts length, but can never extend past length of closed loop. 'Lives' on harness for the day when I'm climbing where/how I think I'll need it, NOT worn as a thong.

AC Flowers wrote:I've done the "bight pass through" but it is sometimes a pretty big pain to get two pieces of rope through a chain link whenever rings aren't there.

If the link is too small to fit a bight through, you can do this:

climbing.com/skills/cleanin…

ScoJo wrote: If the link is too small to fit a bight through, you can do this: climbing.com/skills/cleanin…

In between #1 and #2 I clove hitch after pulling enough slack. Rope doesn't fall back so it's more comfortable to work with.

Roman Buffalo wrote:Share your thoughts: ~30" 6mm cord loop, closed with double fisherman's, attached to belay loop with a lark's head, other end single strand cloved to a locker. Locker goes direct to anchor, clove adjusts length, but can never extend past length of closed loop. 'Lives' on harness for the day when I'm climbing where/how I think I'll need it, NOT worn as a thong.

Not sure If I picture this correctly, but can't the whole thing and you along with it slip out as you adjust the clove? Just tie the same cord into Purcell Prussik and you are golden.

You're funny...until you end up stuck at the top of a sport route with no ATC and your belayer walks off/gets knocked out.

aikibujin wrote: You give me too much credit, I don't try that hard. I just point it out when someone is wrong.

I can see why your argument alarm sounded. Next time I'll write quickdraws are great when I'm at a ledge or have good feet. Maybe even write quickdraws put me too close to the anchor for comfort. I like the adjustability of a personal anchor thingy.

Or better yet, I'll aspire to be right and lose the Chain Reactor

Tim Lutz wrote:I takes TWO PAS systems on sport routes to be super, super redundantly safe! I don't trust quick draws alone, cuz thats what sportos rely on, so it's bad I also find it helpful to have a collection of belay/rappel devices at ALL times! just in case

I'm wondering if you even carry some nuts and prusiks. How about a knife?

T Roper wrote: I'm wondering if you even carry some nuts and prusiks. How about a knife?

Don't forgot a bunch of non lockers. Or is that just for TRing at the gym?

normajean wrote: Not sure If I picture this correctly, but can't the whole thing and you along with it slip out as you adjust the clove? Just tie the same cord into Purcell Prussik and you are golden.

Only one strand is cloved- the locker is captive on the loop

To answer the OPs question, a long enough PAS is the simplest way to get adjustability.

At the anchor clip the PAS to your harness and to the LH bolt at your desired adjusted length.
Pull it across to the RH bolt and clip.
Pull the rest down to your harness and clip.

If it's too short (shouldn't be) clip it to itself or adjust left side until you can.

Option 2, two short PASs

JB

Phil Lauffen wrote:This is good. We've never talked about this on mountainproject before. My opinion: forget any specialized gear. It's unnecessary and complicates the system. Just clip into both bolts with two quickdraws(or chain of draws, depending on your length). Pull a bight of rope through the rings and tie a figure 8 on a bight. Clip into the bight with a locker. Untie your original knot. Voila, you never came off belay and you are ready to lower. The only extra gear you need is a locker.

This is what I do, but it doesn't work all the times. It works with rings but not with chains or if you rappel.

John Wilder wrote:Re: prucell prusiks Neither of those are advantages over a nylon sewn chain (which is what I use). An extra carabiner is all it takes to adjust a chain if you don't want to open the gate, and the nylon provides some dynamic characteristics.

I get your point regarding length adjustment with a second carabiner provided you actually use it. But there is no way a nylon chain can have dynamic qualities of the Purcell Prusik. While there might be some minimal stretch in a nylon chain, the Prusik knot of the Purcell actually slips in a fall, allowing some measure of absorption of forces.

Lutz.... what no backup PAS, in the pack? I never leave home without.

Tim Lutz wrote: absolutely. The more danglies, the safer! Never leave the ground without a machete! that's what I'm saying. The more PASes the better! wouldn't 3 or 4 be even safer?!?! this my typical sport rack to be safe at the anchor:

I'm famous!

OP: There are many ways to skin this cat. Cow's tails, PAS'es, Purcell Prusiks, the climbing rope, quickdraws, etc. They can all be safe and unsafe, adjustable and nonadjustable. What really matters is what you are faster and more comfortable with.

What does a tether need to do? Honestly, it depends. For ledges, it needs to keep you away from the edge. For hanging belays, it needs to hold your weight. For rappels, it's nice when the tether sets itself up to allow you to extend your rappel. For work at height (i.e. guiding for some agencies), it needs to provide two independent and full-strength connections.

As many others have pointed out, you should avoid falling on your tether. For sport climbing, you are almost never in a situation where you would be. You lead up to the anchors, clip in comfortably, and build your anchor. You're not going to be above the anchors. If you're on a ledge, you won't be weighting your tether, so the only way you fall is if you walk off the edge (what are you doing???) or if a rock smacks you off (then falling onto your tether is the least of your worries).

Now, if you're setting anchors by walking up, this is different. You can very often be in a situation where you might take a fall onto your tether, since that might be the only way to access the anchors. In this case, having an tether that will gently extend under load (such as a Purcell Prusik, or a fall arrest lanyard) might be appropriate. Whether or not such a device is necessary depends entirely on your comfort level, and the context. If you're working (as a guide), then maybe your agency requires it. If you aren't comfortable with your footing, then perhaps you actually need such devices (or maybe you just shouldn't be there...).

I would contend that it would be better that you try out a variety of anchoring techniques, and figure out what works best for you, in your climbing context. Remember that ultimately, all this tether needs to do is support your static weight, unless you are in situations where this is your fall protection.

With regards to the purcell, I use it. I find I only use it in one of two configurations - all the way short, or all the way long. I very rarely put it in the middle, and if I do, it was only because I was too lazy to care. I also find that when I want it short, I actually almost want to put a carabiner into my belay loop and clip the anchor. With this, there's almost no reason to use a Purcell - maybe I should just put a set of cow's tails on my harness.

I dislike commercial PAS'es only because they feel like single-use items. Single-use, but effective. But, YMMV. I started with purcells, and haven't had reason to move away.

At least with the Purcell, you can use it for a couple different things. There are techniques for doing belay and load transfers using a Purcell in place of a MMO and prusik. You can also untie the purcell and use it as a regular prusik or cordallette.

Nathan Hui wrote:OP: There are many ways to skin this cat. Cow's tails, PAS'es, Purcell Prusiks, the climbing rope, quickdraws, etc. They can all be safe and unsafe, adjustable and nonadjustable. What really matters is what you are faster and more comfortable with.

No, I would put safe as the top priority over fast or what he's comfortable with. He asked about adjustable......I bet we can get this thing to four pages with a little effort though. JB ;)

PS, don't own a pas never will....Two slings the right length for a comfortable hang based on your height is all you'll ever need for any two bolt anchor.

John Barritt wrote:No, I would put safe as the top priority over fast or comfortable.

He was talking about what the OP was comfortable with doing, not being comfortable.