GriGri PSA/opinion piece/rant
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So I've been using a grigri for a really long time, close to 20 years. In those 20 years I have spent very little time in the gym until the last few seasons. Spending time in gyms puts me right next to people with shiny new grigris and shiny new ropes yet they dont get it. I like this tool, it has made many a day go much smoother and with the right belayers it makes the days even better. |
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natural selection? |
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Oh i don't know...I think it depends on the exact sport climb and if you can anticipate exactly when someone is clipping. Otherwise you short rope. I think the key is to hold the grigri down in relation to your body so a fall pulls it up away from your thumb in the fast feed position. But if you are actually watching the climber this doesn't matter cause you just hold the brake strand. Only caveat is on hanging belays where you can't hold the grigri down then a fall will cause the rope to slip |
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This post makes me feel a bit better, I was going to pose this as a question. |
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I agree, often than not I see people keeping their thumb on the cam all the time when using the Grigri, inside or outside. A couple of years ago I suggested a small modification to the way these people hold the Grigri so they don't need to keep the thumb on the cam all the time, but people assured me that's the way they've always used the Grigri. |
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r m wrote:How dangerous is using the fast feed method all the time? Anyone been dropped like that?Probably every single time someone said, "I don't know how I dropped you! The Grigri just stopped working!!" |
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aikibujin wrote: Probably every single time someone said, "I don't know how I dropped you! The Grigri just stopped working!!"Ask the best female junior (soon to be best female) climber in the world (Ashima) how her dad dropped her whilst using a grigri. |
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fast feed is the only feed |
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FWIW, the new Trango device (the Vergo) avoids this problem entirely. It is designed so that your intuitive hand position naturally keeps you holding the brake rope and you don't even want to override the cam. It feeds very fast if rope is pulled out to the side (again, sort of the natural thing your hands want to do, given the orientation of the device) and then locks up fast when rope pulls upward (which it naturally does in a fall). I know there are lots of longtime Grigri users who have mastered the art of the fast feed AND can maintain a safe belay, but I think the Vergo is a genuine step up in design for camming belay devices, especially for newer belayers, since there is no special technique to learn beyond the basic belaying hand movements. I have been very happy with mine since day one. |
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Its really not hard to pay attention and get away with feeding rope ATC style about 80+% of the time, it makes the tool foolproof when done this way. Most of us use the tool for safety reasons so why make it less safe? Is it just typical lazy human behavior or is it lack of education? |
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r m wrote: Anyone been dropped like that? Is it dangerous enough to tell someone not to do it?they usually blame it on the new slick rope "not locking" is what I've been seeing. what does it take for someone to hit the ground, one second? |
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I love these threads.....The question is; Do you see this behavior at the crag? |
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John Barritt wrote:Now you're saying people are defeating the safety of the device to make it behave like an ATC?no john, give me some time and I'll translate it to Okie language for you... |
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T Roper wrote:..... it makes the tool foolproof when done this way.....Foolproof just spawns better fools. |
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I see a lot of this too, but even worse at my gym where I still see people lead belaying constantly gripping the entire Grigri with their whole hand to keep the brake unlocked. If it's ignorance of proper belay technique with a Grigri, read the manual for your belay device like you should for any piece of climbing gear and watch this video from Petzl: |
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Preach! I've seen way stronger and more experienced climbers than me do this, so it's not just a noob thing. |
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Ted Pinson wrote:Preach! I've seen way stronger and more experienced climbers than me do this, so it's not just a noob thing.bad habits and muscle memory are a terrible combination. for the lazy, start at 3:00- youtu.be/FHdqjjyeTtg?t=177 |
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Ted Pinson wrote:Preach! I've seen way stronger and more experienced climbers than me do this, so it's not just a noob thing.Yes, same here. It is indeed not only a noob thing. |
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anotherclimber wrote:When using the proper fast feed method, if the leader falls while your feeding slack, your brake hand instinct, which hopefully you honed on an ATC, should be to pull away from the fast feed method and pull downwards with both hands firmly gripping the brake strand. Even though they don't show the climbers gripping both hands on the brake strand during falls, you should still do so just like you would with an ATC or any other non-brake assisted belay device. They do mention that if you grip the leader's side of the rope too firmly during a fall you can defeat the locking mechanism and drop the leader. All the more reason to teach yourself to catch falls with both hands on the brake. As long as the belayer is holding the brake side of the rope it will stop the fall. No matter if the clutch the climber's side or not. It doesn't even require that much force on the brake hand to engage the cam. Same for the Cinch. Holding down the cam is the only fail. Have your partner slowly pull rope and hold the brake strand with a mild force. It will engage the cam. I could never not engage it no matter how hard I tried. DON'T LET GO OF THE BRAKE STRAND! |
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rocknice2 wrote: As long as the belayer is holding the brake side of the rope it will stop the fall. No matter if the clutch the climber's side or not. It doesn't even require that much force on the brake hand to engage the cam. Same for the Cinch. Holding down the cam is the only fail. Have your partner slowly pull rope and hold the brake strand with a mild force. It will engage the cam. I could never not engage it no matter how hard I tried. DON'T LET GO OF THE BRAKE STRAND!These two accident reports say otherwise: mountainproject.com/v/anoth… mountainproject.com/v/grigr… With any belay device you should always have both hands on the brake strand when catching a fall or taking. It's just as important whether for a brake assisted or non-brake assisted device. Edit - Adding more information. In the first video I posted above, in the context of catching a fall, at about 6:00 it says: "If you grip the climbers side of the rope too tightly, you run the risk of reducing or even negating the Grigri's braking ability. In the following Petzl link: petzl.com/FR/en/Sport/Belay… They say: "Another bad belayer reflex is to grip the climber side of the rope.In this case, the belayer burns his hand with the rope and worse, prevents the GRIGRI's cam from rotating, which then cannot brake the rope. Here also, the climber falls to the ground." For the Cinch, this problem is even worse. And the accident reports of people here seem to prove it. See my post on this thread for more information. |
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Grigri is the best device mankind ever discover, just F...Ng USE IT RIGHT ...☹️ |