Protecting the places we climb.....

Guys, we are way off track here. Do y'all want to just argue about politics while Trumps sells off all our public lands or do you want to fight back for our public lands and then talk politics when the public lands aren't under immediate threat. JNE, please stop with the political bullshit so we can actually figure out a plan to save climbing.

eli poss wrote:Guys, we are way off track here. Do y'all want to just argue about politics while Trumps sells off all are public lands or do you want to fight back for our public lands and then talk politics when the public lands aren't under immediate threat. JNE, please stop with the political bullshit so we can actually figure out a plan to save climbing.

With Chaffetz taking HR 621 off the table I figured it was a good moment to derail momentarily ;). Though I do think HR 622 is probably a bigger threat to public lands.

Bill Kirby wrote: Fact: Government subsidies oil, gas, solar and wind. Fact: Exxon and Tesla get mad coin from our government. I think Jason's saying your wrong that the government won't provide money for the development of alternative energy.

Actually, I'm not saying that the government won't. I'm saying that it does, even if my memory fails me on precise numbers. I am quite aware of what it has been doing for decades. My point is the same.

I was very much afraid that this thread would devolve into a yahoo comments section, however for the most part, i am very heartened by this discussion.

Does anyone have data on the number of MP users? This site could be a great resource to mobilize and create a unified voice.

Another way you can fight back, somewhat indirectly, is to demand that your local climbing gym become a member gym with the access fund.

accessfund.org/uploads/Acce…

City Dweller wrote: Bellicose, bombastic, and misguided is trending these days. I wish you'd at least get the facts right. For the record: 200 million registered voters, 137 million votes cast, 66 million for Clinton (48% of those cast, 33% of total registered), 63 million for Trump (46% of those cast, 31.5% of total registered). Here's some more statistical analysis that will probably anger you further: the US Electoral College and the US Senate disproportionately amplify the voices of rural voters in small states, despite the fact that the political, social, and economic centers of the country are large cities in large-ish states. So there's a price one pays for living in the city. You might say that people should move out of the city, which is fine for the privileged and bourgeois among us, but not an option for those of us with deep and immobile connections. The Electoral College and the Senate further disenfranchise and marginalize the urban - working, non-white, more recent immigrant - groups in the US who are already confronted with social and cultural marginalization. Our system panders to rural and small states, and the democracy is the casualty of this pandering. The USA has never been one person/one vote, though your rhetoric suggests that you think this would be more fair. This electoral inequality, of course, has roots in the constitutional compromises between the slaveholding and non-slaveholding states. I'm guessing you're rolling your eyes and pounding the table and wondering why does it always have to be a about slavery. People should just get over it! To which I'd respond, we're trying man; we're trying. But carry on bloviating about solipsism and the like, you're totally on the right track. :) To the OP, I agree it's not good news that the Rs in Congress and the new administration want to privatize and industrialize the parks. Resistance works, however (look at Chaffetz rescinding his bill in the house). Keep fighting for what you believe in!

Of course all seeing one sycophant you would show up. Ill update my estimate from 15% to 17.5%. Lol. 17.5% still gets beat by 82.5%. Darn that confounded math: must be a conspiracy solipsized by us sith, who are always somehow stuck on slavery due to the priviledge and racism you read in everywhere. You know, there is this alternate vision where oppressed groups get dignity as opposed to trying to rob it from whites like me and in so doing creating a world with no dignity. In my view everyone deserves dignity. You should consider our views and perhaps adopt some of them.

jason.cre wrote: Heres a few quick ones: The government never gave $50 billion to a company called Solara. The government never gave any money to a company called solara. The government did loan $500 million to a company called solyndra, as part of a wider portfolio of renewable loans.

Thanks for that.

jason.cre wrote: Second, the government has a long track record of subsidizing energy development in the United States. Since 1918 those subsidies have averaged nearly $5 billion annually for fossil fuels. The renewable energy sector has received far less than $1 billion annually since 1994.

Yes, I'm quite aware of this. It is my opinion that the government should not be subsidizing any business, including oil, gas and solar. Every time they get involved in solar they fuck it up. And this hurts me and my company. It is part of what I do. And I am very aware of their involvement. And if the government did not subsidize oil and gas, we would be paying the real price, not the subsidized price. Then, renewables would actually have a chance to compete in the market.

jason.cre wrote: Third, your argument that if you dont like our energy policy you shouldnt use fossil fuels is riddled with so many fallacies it is hard to know where to start. If you criticize the education system does it mean you shouldnt send your kids to school? If you oppose police brutality are you not allowed to call the police in an emergency?

Perhaps you missed my context since this is not what I said. In your example, If you criticize the education system does it mean you shouldnt send your kids to school? . My point, if you criticize schools but aren't doing anything to provide a solution, you shouldn't complain.

But, I really want to know what people are doing to reduce their own consumption. Seriously!

jason.cre wrote: Fourth, yes I power my home, in theory, 100% by wind power. However I know this is a scam from Xcel energy so probably will cancel it.

How do you heat your home and hot water? What part of the country do you live in? I'm really curious.

Black Diamond and Patagonia have been speaking out, though not necessarily at the level they could be.
theguardian.com/sustainable…

bump

I'm not a crazy political person, but selling our lands to private interests is clearly not a great idea, and many on this thread agree.

I just feel helpless, what can I do to stop this from being passed? Call a congressman?

I'm just a 20 something from Michigan, what pull do I have?

There has to be something else we can do, but I don't know what to do.

Sorry I'm not full of ideas, just a sad/frustrated american.

-B

Bryan Bielicki wrote:I'm not a crazy political person, but selling our lands to private interests is clearly not a great idea, and many on this thread agree. I just feel helpless, what can I do to stop this from being passed? Call a congressman? I'm just a 20 something from Michigan, what pull do I have? There has to be something else we can do, but I don't know what to do. Sorry I'm not full of ideas, just a sad/frustrated american. -B

As a 20yr old, I feel kind of helpless as well. Other than calling your congressman, I think the best thing would be to create a ruckus on social media and challenge the outdoor industry to step up to the plate and fight for public lands. Also getting other people to talk to their representatives has a big impact. It took a few thousand people for Chaffetz to withdraw the first bill. If we can get a few thousand more people to speak up then maybe the 2nd bill won't pass.

Ever read Invasion of the Body Snatchers (which is kind of how it feels these days with so people regurgitating Truamp's twitter posts without any thought about its content or truth)? At the end of the book, there are only a few people who have not been taken over by the pods. The protagonist finds some unopened pods (that haven't taken over humans) and, though knowing he's fighting probably a losing battle against something much larger than him, destroys them all anyways. That's the straw that breaks the camel back for the aliens. They've been largely successful, but they conclude it's just too much darn work to subvert all the humans, and they leave to find an easier planet to conquer. One person can always make a difference. You may feel like you're getting nowhere or beating your head against a wall (particularly when you're talking to a Trump supporter), but you have to keep at it and not roll over. Us climbers are weird. We do hard, scary stuff that other people is crazy because it's fun. Use that strange energy to resist and create positive change.

Why isn't this forum a "sticky" yet? Admin's speak up and get this topic permanently welded on the home page.

Don't despair, this is exactly what the oligarchs wants. This entire country and it's citizens are under attack. This is not one issue in one location. The good news is that small groups of people have been able to have huge impacts and this is how progress is made. Focus on your local area and see what going on. It all connected, it's all part of the larger fight for peace and freedom.

youtube.com/watch?v=1iFiHJ7…

Bryan Bielicki wrote:I'm not a crazy political person, but selling our lands to private interests is clearly not a great idea, and many on this thread agree. I just feel helpless, what can I do to stop this from being passed? Call a congressman? I'm just a 20 something from Michigan, what pull do I have? There has to be something else we can do, but I don't know what to do. Sorry I'm not full of ideas, just a sad/frustrated american. -B

Vote

Oh trust me, I vote, not just in presidential elections.

Some say if one wants change, vote on a local level, your congressmen/woman and I do, but I'm only one person with one vote.

gunter wrote:Why isn't this forum a "sticky" yet? Admin's speak up and get this topic permanently welded on the home page.

This. C'mon guys, we need all the help we can get for this. And to REI, because I know you're reading this, it's time to step up to the plate and join the fight for public lands.

The only vote that really matters is the vote with your wallet. If you buy petroleum products, more petroleum products will be extracted from the earth. Some from Utah, some from middle eastern countries where woman can't drive, vote, and their clitoris are cut off.

JNE wrote: there is this alternate vision where oppressed groups get dignity as opposed to trying to rob it from whites like me and in so doing creating a world with no dignity. In my view everyone deserves dignity. You should consider our views and perhaps adopt some of them.

Angry, bitter, resentful little dude. You could use some help. A world free of racial and gender bias is like your own private hell. So sad. It's a scary little hovel you're in. And getting smaller and smaller. I feel for you, brother. But we all gotta grow up and face the real world some day. Best of luck to you. Pro tip: don't over-use words you don't understand (e.g., dignity). It's a sign of weakness. No one will take you seriously.

:)

City Dweller wrote: Angry, bitter, resentful little dude. You could use some help. A world free of racial and gender bias is like your own private hell. So sad. It's a scary little hovel you're in. And getting smaller and smaller. I feel for you, brother. But we all gotta grow up and face the real world some day. Best of luck to you. Pro tip: don't over-use words you don't understand (e.g., dignity). It's a sign of weakness. No one will take you seriously. :)

Let's try to focus our energy and words in a more productive manner. You know, raising support for public lands instead of wasting time and energy making personal attacks. :)

Now, lets get this ball rolling. Do y'all think it would be worth it to create a petition on that website that goes straight to the White House? Or would it just get ignored by Trump and be a waste of time?