Minimal Gunks Rack?

Go buy more gear and sew it up. Cheaper than waiting in the ER for a DR to see you, not to mention that you have the option to leave it in the ground. There are a lot of people that start climbing and then realize that they don't want to lead trad. Check the FS forum and craigslist

Learn how to use it too. Unless you want us to talk yo you on MP

I'd definitely echo all of the recommendations for more alpine draws (I wouldn't leave the deck with fewer than ten) and the tricams. Although you might be able to get away without the tricams if you add some smaller cams with narrow heads, there are many horizontal placements where nothing works as well as a pink or red tricam. I've found the smaller tricams are indispensable, but brown and bigger tend to not make it off my rack as I'll favor cams in those sizes. That said, the indispensability of tricams is obviously a matter of debate (as you can see from the replies). If value-for-money is a concern, though, I think you can't beat them.

f you haven't spent a great deal of time playing with hexes, I'd stay away from them. Although they can be great for the gunks, the learning curve is such that I don't think it's worth buying them just before leaving for a trip. If you're concerned about having enough gear, there are plenty of places where you can walk up and drop a top rope on great climbs. It won't impress anyone, and if it's crowded, that won't make you popular, but it's very feasible on a weekday.

But if I could only give one piece of advice for the gunks, it'd be to download the Dirtbag Developer guidebook apps (e.g. Trapps App). They are phenomenal and will give you all the beta you need to determine whether you can climb the route safely with the gear you've got. Have a great time!

Mark Berenblum wrote:But if I could only give one piece of advice for the gunks, it'd be to download the Dirtbag Developer guidebook apps (e.g. Trapps App). They are phenomenal and will give you all the beta you need to determine whether you can climb the route safely with the gear you've got. Have a great time!

I would heartily agree!

gunksapps.com/

My basic rack is...

Wild country rocks #1-5 doubles #6-9 single
BD C3s gray to red single-set
BD C4s baby blue to yellow single-set (doubles of purple & red for overlap)
10 shoulder alpine draws (mammut spectra, they don't have a seam)
2 regular draws
2 shoulder slings non-spectra
2 4 footers, 1 spectra, 1 non spectra
2 lockers
2-4 free biners

If heading into questionable territory (places I haven't been or 5.9R and up) I will bring Big Blue (C4)
my set of micro wires BD steel swedges #1-5 doubles and some brass including offsets. Aliens blue, green, and yellow for overlap and size options. I like to have a nut tool while leading for cleaning out cracks if I'm off the beaten path.

I do almost all of my belays with a rope so I rarely carry a cordalette but I think most people prefer those.

More than anything else familiarity with your gear and the nuances of how to place whatever brand you have is essential. Learning how to find good stances in the middle of a climb and taking the time to make micro-adjustments in your gear to make the placements optimal is essential in climbing safely.

Christian Fracchia

Second the Gunks App.

Christian's rack raises an interesting issue. A very experienced guy who climbs very hard stuff is carrying more than some of the recommended "minimal" racks for new leaders.

Here's the thing: spare racks are for experts who know how to pare things down and are comfortable with the runouts a minimal rack will impose. In my opinion, the last thing in the world a relatively new leader wants is a minimal rack. A new leader's protection skills are still developing, and the only way to be safe in the face of that inexperience is to place more gear, double up on mission critical placements, and build solid three-piece anchors when trees and/or bolts are not in the offing. I'd say a single full set of nuts and a double rack of cams from micro through finger size up to green Camalot size, plus a red, a yellow, and a blue Camalot size piece. 12 alpine draws, a few additional slings, and a few free carabiners and lockers. Cordelette is an optional extra.

For economy purposes, one can substitute perhaps 3 tricams for some of the cams, recognizing that you'll probably need good stances to place them from so they won't be as useful. Most of the time, a cam is better than a tricam, but tricams are useful as specialty pieces, so acquiring them will not be a waste. Do make sure you and your seconds read up on removal though. Fuhgettabout hexes; you'll just ditch them for cams when you get better.

I get that this costs a lot. But if your reason for a lighter rack is financial, you should be fully aware that you are adding risks that could be far more of a financial drain...

In addition to the obvious safety of having more placements between you and the ground, a double rack can help the budding leader choose obvious/natural placements rather than be frequently forced to improvise/conserve.

Aside: combining pitches may well eliminate the advantages of a double rack (or worse, because you can easily run out of slings and/or have more rope drag to deal with).

I've been leading at the gunks for about a decade now. I lived at the bottom of the stairmaster for a while as well. not that any of that really means anything just trying to give you a little background of my experience.

For years I've climbed with bd nuts doubles from #1-10 and singles in the large nuts. I also bring a BD triple rack of cams with me but i never bring the whole thing up. I leave the #6's at home and only bring 1 #5 and 2 #4's. unless I plan on getting on something wide of course. Only until recently and I dont know how I climbed what I would consider hard gunks trad (5.11+) without microcams (aliens micro bd cams etc) but I did... now i climb with microcams as well and I love it.

So BD nuts
BD cams I bring a triple rack to the crag and take appropriate gear for each climb.
Climbing with Aliens currently until they break. which happens frequently bc they suck ass. Im replacing my broken aliens with the BD micro cams.
I bring at least ten slings with me. I have racking biners on all my cams which come in very handy if I end up using all my slings and have to place a nut. (happens from time to time)

One thing you may want to consider is making a stiffy. a stiffy is a quickdraw with a shitton of tape. this makes it very easy to make a low clip on a piton or anchor while holding the bottom of the draw. I can honestly say I have never used one on lead ive only tried them out but I have been in many situations where I thought "i should really make one of those fuckers, it would be perfect right now!"

ive never had to climb with tricams at the gunks. some people are all tricams. I have zero.

Another thought... I'm also a relatively-new leader and couldn't agree more with what rgold has said. As a new leader, having options is absolutely critical. If I gotta start getting creative, I'm already pumping out and probably fucked. My rack consists of a full double rack of C4s, with doubles of Aliens and Metolius TCUs for the smaller sizes. I also have one Link cam in each size (3 total) that I often bring along. The link cams are expensive, heavy, and don't really inspire a lot of confidence. BUT, their huge range means that if you leave them as the last cams on your rack (i.e. place your C4s, aliens, etc. first, and reach for the links only if you've run out in a particular size), you're pretty much guaranteed to have a cam that'll fit any larger finger or hand placement. The obvious drawback of this is that your heaviest cams are the ones you're most likely to be lugging around and never placing, but it's a system that's worked for me. Since Link cams aren't particularly loved, you can often pick them up here (or at the Rock & Snow Annex in New Paltz) for WAY less than MSRP.

Another great place to pick up link cams is on any given classic on a Monday in the gunks...

In all seriousness I use one I bootied more than I expected to - it makes a great alpine piece as well as a larger offset that makes finicky placements almost mindless (Amber waves, retribution).

I'd be really cautious about using a link cam in a horizontal placement. Lotta stress on the small and relatively weak links between the cams. When they first came out, we got reports about breakage. Haven't heard much recently, but don't know if that is because of a fall-off in use or because of improvements in manufacture.

rgold wrote:I'd be really cautious about using a link cam in a horizontal placement. Lotta stress on the small and relatively weak links between the cams. When they first came out, we got reports about breakage. Haven't heard much recently, but don't know if that is because of a fall-off in use or because of improvements in manufacture.

Very good to know! I did not know this, and will confess to having placed them in horizontals. I never thought of them as particularly sketchy in horizontal placements, but they have always struck me as a little questionable. There are just too many moving parts and a lot of movement in the mechanics.

Having started leading within the past year (almost exactly actually). I learned using Hexes and nuts, TCUs and a BD rack.

I ended up grabbing:

• a single set of C4s (.5->3)
• a single set of X4s (.1-.4)
• A set of WC Rocks
• Set of Tricams
• 8 alpine draws
• 2 double length slings
• Cord for anchors.

This served me perfectly well through most of my leading up to the end of this season where some 8/8+s and 9s started to favor smaller nuts (dmm peenuts on the way) or have slightly more finicky small placements (doubled small sizes with Mastercams or my partners totems).

I probably didn't need the .1/.2 X4, but they did make for great mental pro - even if they weren't always the greatest placements.

While tricams maybe aren't the most popular they were great for gear anchors and conserving cams. There's days where I won't touch them at all and other days where I use them on every pitch. I'll never not bring them though - they're so cheap, light and versatile.

One thing that was kinda helpful was when a guide I went out with went over evaluating pitons and fixed gear. It lets you kinda hedge your bets on some that seem more trustworthy and save the backup gear for later.

Probably worth noting I'm definitely climbing under my limit, which I'm sure makes a huge difference in how I protect.

Thanks all for the replies. The information is useful outside of the specific trip, so very much appreciated.

@Chris Reyes -- how do you find the X4s work in the Gunks? I found a great deal on a .3, .4 and .5 which I wanted to jump on. Would add the .1 and .2 to finish out the set. I figure the .5 gives a double in that range with the silver (#0) dragon, which can't hurt. Trying to decide on what small cams I want to start with, but budget is definitely a driving factor.

gabe.fs wrote:Thanks all for the replies. The information is useful outside of the specific trip, so very much appreciated. @Chris Reyes -- how do you find the X4s work in the Gunks? I found a great deal on a .3, .4 and .5 which I wanted to jump on. Would add the .1 and .2 to finish out the set. I figure the .5 gives a double in that range with the silver (#0) dragon, which can't hurt. Trying to decide on what small cams I want to start with, but budget is definitely a driving factor.

Then buy your cams by the biggest discounts. You wont be getting too much use out of a cam until you get most of a single rack anyway, unless you know certain climbs to get on that are protected with all nuts.

Chris Reyes wrote:One thing that was kinda helpful was when a guide I went out with went over evaluating pitons and fixed gear. It lets you kinda hedge your bets on some that seem more trustworthy and save the backup gear for later.

I'd like to add a word of caution: no one can really evaluate fixed pitons. This was actually tested in Europe a few years ago. There was no correlation between experienced climbers' judgements about fixed gear and the levels it failed at. Sorry, I can't find the link, but the result certainly stuck in my mind.

If you are experienced in using pitons (not many folks in that category now) and have a hammer, you can get a decent sense of how good a fixed piton is. Otherwise, you have very little idea. You can, of course, spot seriously old and rusted gear. But gear that looks ok might be...or might not be.

gabe.fs wrote:Thanks all for the replies. The information is useful outside of the specific trip, so very much appreciated. @Chris Reyes -- how do you find the X4s work in the Gunks? I found a great deal on a .3, .4 and .5 which I wanted to jump on. Would add the .1 and .2 to finish out the set. I figure the .5 gives a double in that range with the silver (#0) dragon, which can't hurt. Trying to decide on what small cams I want to start with, but budget is definitely a driving factor.

Man I wish the @ notation actually worked, I somehow missed your reply.

X4s work great in the gunks. They have their detractors, some people find them floppy, some get mad when the wire kinks (if you search for x4 threads on MP you'll see plenty of complaints), but I've no issues. They place well in the continuous horizontal cracks we have and do ok in some of the other things. They'll get you up climbs and you won't regret them. I do like my .5 X4, but that's as high as I go.

However now you're entering the divisive world of small cams. You could use a set of X4s forever and be totally cool. That said, I've got some new UL Mastercams that place extremely solidly and are slightly narrower than the x4s. When they place they're bomber, however with the smaller range I'm still learning where/when to place them. My partner has a full rack of totem cams (down to black), those things are fantastic. Are they $80 fantastic? I donno - they place where other things won't and place well. Totem basics (and all other alien derivatives) are also very vocally championed.

Will you regret anything you purchase? Probably not. So get what's on sale. They all do the same thing, some work better in certain spots than others but this being the gunks pretty much everything will work, especially since you're just starting.

rgold wrote: I'd like to add a word of caution: no one can really evaluate fixed pitons. This was actually tested in Europe a few years ago. There was no correlation between experienced climbers' judgements about fixed gear and the levels it failed at. Sorry, I can't find the link, but the result certainly stuck in my mind. If you are experienced in using pitons (not many folks in that category now) and have a hammer, you can get a decent sense of how good a fixed piton is. Otherwise, you have very little idea. You can, of course, spot seriously old and rusted gear. But gear that looks ok might be...or might not be.

I'd love to see that study, but that's kind of what I've been learning the more time I spend out there. In fact from my experience everyone has their own voodoo they do to decide what's good and what's not. This guide specifically took the time to explain how they're supposed to be placed, placements in vertial vs. horizontal cracks and wear to look for. I back them up almost as a rule, but if I'm low on gear, the pin "looks great" and I feel like I have a low chance of falling, I'll do my best to move past it and find a higher placement. I imagine it's best to just pretend they're not there.

rgold wrote:I'd be really cautious about using a link cam in a horizontal placement. Lotta stress on the small and relatively weak links between the cams. When they first came out, we got reports about breakage. Haven't heard much recently, but don't know if that is because of a fall-off in use or because of improvements in manufacture.

As long as the force doesn't twist it around it should be fine in a horizontal. The breakages occurred largely in vertical cracks when people pointes stems out instead of stems down and it rotated. Rotation is what you want to avoid on the rivets between lobes.

JK- wrote: As long as the force doesn't twist it around it should be fine in a horizontal. The breakages occurred largely in vertical cracks when people pointes stems out instead of stems down and it rotated. Rotation is what you want to avoid on the rivets between lobes.

purely anecdotal: For the lack of climbers I see with link cams in the gunks, I'm struck by how many stuck link cams I see. Feel like every easy and moderate classic has a chopped tricam and a linkcam jammed in them someplace. At one point I think there might have been two on strictly!

Rob D. wrote: purely anecdotal: For the lack of climbers I see with link cams in the gunks, I'm struck by how many stuck link cams I see. Feel like every easy and moderate classic has a chopped tricam and a linkcam jammed in them someplace. At one point I think there might have been two on strictly!

How in the hell does one get a link cam stuck? Seriously, you could use a cam a couple sizes smaller if you're getting a link cam stuck...

I did lots of "beginning leading" in gunks with
Set of BD nuts
four BD cams
a few tri-cams

Various alpine slings & a cordelette.

Quick draws I found nearly useless.

Generally I would have preferred a slightly larger rack with a couple mini-cams (yellow aliens) and probably an couple more mid-sized cams, but I always got by okay.

A couple of straight nylon (not kevlar) slings served quite well in lieu of prussiks (far more versatile).