Valley Giant Issues

Billcoe wrote:$200? You must have gotten the "Trump lover" extra charge? As an aside, yer girl sounds like a keeper if she's buying you Valley Giants, did it get ya up your project?

I did. I think were I to order another, I'd definitely want "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN" engraved on the trigger.

LOL! Bet that would be a $500 extra charge. I've rarely used mine, but I have, and they are so nice to have when you are in the middle of that war of going up or getting spit out. Took me forever to get mine, but I'm an inpatient soul.

The worse is when you head on up[ carrying these boat anchors and then find out that tiny crack (as it appeared on the ground) is a perfect Alien fit and then do you A) Toss boat anchors off, or B) Suck it up. I've had that occur a few times, or you get a great #6 Camalot placement in the back of the wyde crack etc etc.

^^ Good call ^^^ Better to have it sooner that wait till it's too late. Dayum, I just saw that the #12 is $300.

Whoa........anyway, thanks for the heads up. I realize there is no excuse I can give for him not communicating with folks (as in, "just a brief note to tell you, a stranger who layed some money down for a cam, that my wife has terminal cancer" or some such) but it's a part time thankless job that I remember he once tried to dish off on someone else as it was so labor intensive etc etc. I think he's pretty much making them as a service to climbing community. I don't think he's funding any trips to Hawaii or his retirement plan with the 20 cams or whatever he makes in a year.

Mike Brady wrote:That lobe surface is definitely unfinished. That appears to be just a waterjet finish.

It looks like it will have more bite than the finished version to me. Hit the edges with sand paper and roll on. Hell, pretty soon everybody will want one! FYI, if somebody snags it and you see it on their rack later there's no dispute of ownership. JB

For $300 (For a #12), I don't think it's too much to ask for the product to be finished before it is sent out. I also don't think it's too much to ask for someone to respond to emails at least somewhat reliably. I also don't think it's too much to ask for the product to be sent out in a reasonable amount of time (not 6 months).

Just my opinion.

So weak!

I completely agree that that is one sorry excuse for a cam. Those edges are a danger to every soft product they might come in contact with.

I would file a complaint with the Better Business folks.

Don't fall for this BS about how this guy is the only one making these and isn't making a big profit... and for some reason, deserves a break. I'll never forget how early "alien" defenders excused their failures uses this same logic. Widespread stem failures finally forced a CCH recall, and Dave was lucky no one was killed before he accepted his responsibility.

I for one appreciate the post and warning. I've gotta wonder... If Tom is so great, why can't he respond to this very valid complaint? He doesn't seem very nice, nor professional, and using the example above... absolutely isn't diligent.

Tom's a good guy. My guess is that he doesn't respond to the thread because he doesn't realize it exists. Smooth lobes aren't going to matter...if it makes you feel warm, file them.

It's understandable to be upset about the lobes not looking like your buddie's and it's not what was expected but as far as performance goes, there is no difference other than the risk of the sharp edges of the lobe fraying a sling.

Some 80 grit sandpaper in hand taken to those edges would solve it. It would take me about ten minutes. If that.

I sort of like the industrial look of the waterjet finish.

man, i can't believe what a whiny bunch of chodas climbers are these days. i have had a couple for 12 maybe 15 years or so and they look the same. my friends and i have kicked the shit out of these things and we haven't died.

the edges are a danger to all soft goods, LOLZ. maybe a danger to everybody's soft thin skin. jesus...

^^^ I agree. People seem to be over reacting. I don't know the manufacturer but some have said he's a good dude and his products are solid.

Maybe he could return customer calls? Send out a little slab of sandpaper to make them feel better?

slim wrote:man, i can't believe what a whiny bunch of chodas climbers are these days. i have had a couple for 12 maybe 15 years or so and they look the same. my friends and i have kicked the shit out of these things and we haven't died. the edges are a danger to all soft goods, LOLZ. maybe a danger to everybody's soft thin skin. jesus...

Don't think anyone is really whining. Would you not be a little bummed if you ordered any other product and it came to you not as advertised? It seems from other photos that the lobes are in fact machined and the ones that the OP has are not. Pretty simple

i actually find it odd that somebody has a VG with lobes that have the machined grooves in them. i have seen quite a few VG's and i don't recall ever seeing any like this. all of them i have seen have had smooth lobes with fairly sharp/unrefined edges. if you look on the VG website, it doesn't look like there are any photos that show the grooves either.

soooo, it doesn't really seem like they aren't as advertised. if you look at any photo on the VG website, they look like they were made in a garage.

this reminds me of a post where somebody was complaining that the anodizing on some camalot lobes was a slightly different color than other ones that they had bought, and they were terrified that it was a QC issue.

My ~2005 BG9 has a smooth finish, no teeth or roughness. My 2016 VG9 is as pictured by the OP with the rough lobe surface. As best I can tell it was intentionally roughened with a belt sander after machining. The rest of the circumference is smooth from machining. I am pretty sure it is just to make it a little more grippy so the cam will tend to walk less. 5 minutes with some wet/dry sand paper would make it smooth if that is what you prefer.

Tom is our ONLY source of 9 inch cams. He has indicated a couple times that it is an honor he would not mind passing on to someone else, basically he keeps making these as a courtesy to the climbing community at a fair price. So far the Pamalots and Cloud 9's are not on the market or even really threatening to be. I am VERY happy with the quality of both of mine.

Take someone up on the offer to buy it from you. You'd think anyone into alligator wrestling wouldn't be such a whiner.

In the pictures ya posted Matt, the holes in the lobes seem to be smooth and finished.

That leads me to believe the roughness on the contact surface is intentional.

Thread title should be "buyer be-aware" that this gear is hand-made, and prioritizes function over form.

But anyone shopping for a VG tends to know that.

I think your expectations bummed ya out, not the gear.

did that evan deis guy ever end up making big cams? there was an online article somewhere about it, i think his company was called baranabos or something like that. they looked pretty slick.

I bought a 9 and a 12 about 10 years ago. The contact edges were smooth. Having held a number of falls at Vedauwoo, they are now a bit rough. My point is they've worked fine.

Story: when Friends first came out, I had bought a #2. With usage the grooves started to smooth out. In those days, you could just write the inventor, Ray Jardine, to ask about the devices. He replied not to worry. The grooves were cosmetic and that there was more holding power with smooth edges.

rob.calm

rob.calm wrote:: when Friends first came out, I had bought a #2. With usage the grooves started to smooth out. In those days, you could just write the inventor, Ray Jardine, to ask about the devices. He replied not to worry. The grooves were cosmetic and that there was more holding power with smooth edges. rob.calm

I've heard that quote before, but DMM would seem to disagree, and say that their new Dragons have better holding power with more teeth. Here's a link:
dmmclimbing.com/new-dragon-…

Also, the new metolius cams with the shark tooth shaped lobe surface would say otherwise, unless it's all cosmetic. Unfortunately there isn't really any data, just what different manufacturers say, which of course may be influenced by marketing.

OTOH, I seem to recall reading a post on here from an engineer saying that we don't really understand what goes on between the cam lobe and the rock because either the rock or the cam lobe will deform under load and the deformation completely hoses the physics of friction that we understand.

Matt:

Is there a burr along the upper edge of the lobe-one that you feel when running your finger across the edge of the cam?

Thanks for sharing this info, Matt. I was about to contact him and order one, but I think I'll hold off. I get that he's (probably?) a one-man operation and that he makes them to order, but that doesn't excuse poor communication.

A six-month wait time is fine if it is communicated up front. Unfinished cam lobe surfaces are fine if that's the new method of construction (but again, explain this up front).

For what it's worth, every VG 9 I've seen and used (including the ones pictured on the VG website's "Using a Valley Giant" page) have had finished, toothed lobe surfaces. I think they are well-designed, functional cams, but inconsistent manufacturing doesn't exactly instill confidence.

You were perfectly diplomatic in your original post and I don't understand why people are mocking you when you shelled out good money for a product that not only doesn't meet your expectations but doesn't even live up to the designer and manufacturer's standards (whether or not the physics of teeth on a cam lobe make a difference in holding power is irrelevant). I would not accept this at all and if he continued to ignore me I'd get my credit card company involved.

certainly no backstory of a certain customer calling and calling and calling and emailing and emailing until the maker decided he was a jerkoff and just sent it to shut him up

yeah, I'm just playing the devils advocate but fuck it, enjoy those fat ass cracks