Lowering a climber with an ATC

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Gabe, I hope the diagram provides some clarity.

Ted Pinson wrote:Mark, think about that one for a second. How is belaying different from rappelling? Hint: why does an ATC have two holes? Since you are rappelling off of two strands, you effectively have twice the friction, hence why it's much easier to control.

Umm. No. Yes using two strands is more friction than one. But, when lowering there is always a top anchor with friction and often some rope rubbing against the gear/ draws/gym wall/ rock. When rappelling the only friction is at the reppeller's device, biner and hands.

Cory F wrote: Gabe, I hope the diagram provides some clarity.

Boy, they really are in for a surprise when they belay anywhere else, with a normal amount of friction! They're also headed for blisters on that top hand, and may not want to climb very long, if that's the painful process they're being taught.

Edit to add: I'm assuming maybe the top ropes wrap the anchors, and don't lower people easily. ???

Thanks for the drawing, much appreciated.

OLH

It really isn't that complicated.

For top roping, hell, a hip belay works.

OLH and others,

All in all I was surprised to see this happen at a major gym in san francisco. I wanted to hear the MP community thoughts on this observation.

If I make it back to the gym and see this lesson happen again I might say something to the instructor on the side.

Thanks

Update:

I'm back on the west coast and revisited the gym. This time I brought my harness and belay device to test for TR (Waiting for my lead partner to move out here to lead. Can't wait). I digress...

The TR ropes are wrapped one time around the metal spool. The ropes are ungodly stiff, fuzzy, and when there's moisture in the air they swell. These ropes are extremely difficult the thread and ATC with and tie a snug Figure 8. In some cases when belaying, I had to use my body weight to take in slack. Thus, when lowering I had to push the rope through the ATC.

Given these conditions, it explains why they were teaching the mentioned method. Belayers essentially have to completely open (meaning the climber and belayer end of the ropes are parallel) the ATC device to lower the climber.

I still have a few concerns with these gym conditions not translating to outdoor conditions but I'm glad I not understand.