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New Wild Country Friends (twin axle) - table top review

Original Post
mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885

Just got in one of the new WC Friends. It was 99 here in TX today so it might be a bit before a real world review. This is just initial impressions playing with it side by side with my #3 C4.

TLDR: A better and more refined Camalot C4. WC has taken what is for many the gold standard for cams and improved the product without straying too far from the norm. People looking for a better C4 and not stoked on the Ultralights should give these a serious look. So long as on rock performance (likely a tad better) and durability ( perhaps a tad less) hold up, these are likely to become the new new gold standard for many.

This is for the Blue #3 C4 equivalent.
- Nearly identical in size to a C4. The stem is a bit shorter the the prototype pics that made it slightly longer than a C4. Wish they'd kept it slightly longer. Perhaps the similar length allowed weight savings. See below. Width is nearly the same.

New Friend vs C4 Camalot
C4 vs Friend vs Dragon. Note the longer Friend Prototype and SWAGE near thumb loop

- It appears as though WC changed the cable design since the announcement. Older pics show a thick cable swage above the thumb loop but this version has none. You can see the new style above and the old swage in this old #3 photo.
Old Proto Swage
- cable head termination looks better than prototypes. More material missing than the C4 for less weight I assume. Shorter swage here as well. Don't know if this is true for smaller sizes but looks like #1 and below have longer head termination/
Friend head termination

- trigger wires seem more refined than C4 (swages cleaner and smaller)
New Friend - Hollow Axel and trigger wires - nice and clean

- cam springs slightly more stiff than C4. Nice! The trigger and cam action seems a bit more refined vs C4. Hard to quantify. Like a Helium biner vs Hotwire, just a bit nicer.
- cam lobes. Wider throughout the entire arc. Obviously the newer raw cam surface feature here as well. WC said the springs combined with this surface and right angles (vs older helium curved edge) will help reduce walking of double axle cams
New Friend on the Right

- extendable sling adds a biner length more. Some don't like this but I like that it allows options as to where the carabiner can lie. Sometimes in deeper placements the biner ends up over an edge. Adding a QD doesn't change that fact. The double sling gives you that option. Bar tacks have arrows to indicate which end to grab and pull. A nice touch
Friend Extendable Sling

- weight : Weight of #3 WC = 190g which is well below their published specs online (. Perhaps those changes to cable length and swage reduced weight. Will update chart ASAP with new numbers
- range : WC designers say they played with the ranges of the set a bit to try and avoid the known gaps in the C4 range. They're pretty close for most sizes but note decent the shift for the #2 range.
Published range from both Manufacturers. Weights are BD Published and WC my weighing.

Overall, these are really slick and a nice improvement over the C4 in my first blush opinion. I haven't played with an Ultralight Camalot but I suspect more will gravitate toward this iteration of the cam. It will take some miles to determine if the changes effect durability in any significant way and if the lower rating (12kN/10kN sling extended) matters much at all.

I'm a big fan of Totem Cams and their basics but do appreciate the double axel design for inward flaring placements where the passive rating helps. The extendable sling also adds to the versatility. These mixed with Totem offerings would make for a very good rack IMO.

Will update as time and milage allows.

Edit 1: A poster over on the UK Forums who was involved in the redesign project made the following comments which I found quite interesting.

"As for the cams not shattering the earth with their amazingness, what you need to consider is that Heliums bombed. Like completely. Hence why shops were discounting them very soon after they came out. It seemed to the sales guys that the market was at double axle whether they liked it or not. Lets face it, single axle cams are more stable, they are lighter per unit, in terms of shear physics, single axle cams are a less complicated and more robust solution. so what should they do? Continue to sell what the market considers a dud or take the hit and move on?

Now whilst thy might appear to be the same as a Camalot they really aren't. We made a big effort to optimise the sizes so that there are absolutely no inconsistencies through the range - no other company has done that - DMM have literally copied the range sizes of BD but added a 13.75 degree angle. If you look at in depth there are some big gaps and some big compressions in their range. Then we also made the lobes as wide as we could (Stevo is going to disagree on this one) to help prevent the most common real world pull out which is through rock pulverisation - if you look at DMM's new offering and Metolius's new sharktook cam surface they have tried to address the same issue in a different way. So weight for weight you have more metal in contact with the rock to help reduce the surface stresses present within the rock. Then we reduced axle weight by making them hollow which means you more or less get 2 for the price of one.

The pull out sling again - it's a compromise - some people like it some don't and just want ultimate strength. What Toby says above about not needing more extenders is to some extent truth, but consider this: the dragon achieves much of it's lightness through not having a thumbloop. The cable section of the thumbloop as it's steel weighs considerably more than an aluminium pigs nostril. They have further reduced weight by shortening the stem cable as much as possible. What you lose by doing this is reach inside the crack and some 5cm in length, about the length of a small carabiner. By retaining a thumbloop you actually come back to a similar extended length to a standard loop length plus an extender. So it's a little more complex than just calling marketing. It also makes them in my view the most comfortable in your hand out of any product on the market, especially the largest silver/grey one.

So overall, we've made lots of small incremental improvements to deliver what they feel is the best set of features they can.

Now then, Ultralight BD's. To be honest having held them in my hand at tradeshows, I'm not convinced. The cam lobes are thin as hell which is NOT a good thing on double axle cams, they are not as light as they could be, the whole thing is pretty bulky and the sling is not hermetically sealed which means if you get grit and dirt ingress, it will sit there abrading the dyneema internally with no way of inspecting the sling as the plastic is black. Water and dirt trapped in a plastic tube with fibres, even dyneema fibres is not a great idea. But I guess long term usage will prove I'm wrong..."

mountainhick · · Black Hawk, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 120

Thanks for the info. Look like a nice alternative.

Pete Spri · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 347

I think the hollow axels will be a problem in dirty, wet, and especially freezing conditions.

mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885

How so?

Pete Spri · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 347

Water freezing inside a hollow axel sounds like a recipe for catastrophic disaster.

I can't imagine it would be great for corrosion inside an axel where you can't see it either.

John The Wolf · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 50
Pete Spri wrote:Water freezing inside a hollow axel sounds like a recipe for catastrophic disaster. I can't imagine it would be great for corrosion inside an axel where you can't see it either.
Water freezing inside the axel shouldn't damage it in the same way it could damage a full water bottle left overnight in the freezer. The axle is open so once maximum ice expansion has occured in the radial axis (pushing on the axle inner walls) the ice will start to expand outwards, in the axial direction and will push out of the axle, like ice coming out of an ice screw (different phenomenon though).

The water bottle (or beer botlle, don't ask me how I know) in the freezer explodes because there is nowhere for the ice to go so it just keeps on pushing on the inner walls.

This is just my guess though...

As far as corrosion, you raise a point but even with a closed axle, who can say that the axle wasn't closed on a very humid day in the plant? There could be a ton of moisture stuck inside for all I know! Also, I guess they use stainless steel for this part wich isn't as susceptible to surface corrosion as other materials.

Of course, I could be wrong!
Dave Hug · · Carbondale, IL · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 12,140

Thank you for posting this. I have been dying to see a good review of these beauties. Now only if Outdoor Gear Lab could get their act together and redo their cam rankings.

Please climb your cams soon and show pics with your general thoughts

Gee Monet · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 732

I bet you could toke out of the hollow axels.

Pete Spri · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 347

Waiting to see what small cams WC releases to fill the small end of their range.

Alex Lloyd · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 35

I can second that TLDR, Matt. I just picked up a green friend as a supplementary piece, and it almost feels like a next-gen c4--slight improvements on a very familiar platform. I haven't had the pleasure of placing it yet, but here's what I have gathered from my admittedly limited experience with it so far:

- more ergonomic trigger (it just feels nicer in my hand)
- trigger pull doesn't feel quite as tight as my green camalot
- Rated for 10kn in both active and passive vs 14kn on .75 c4
- extendable sling is a welcome addition as you stated above
- range is close, but not quite as good as the c4 (plugged it into my crack wall along with the c4 and it seems to over-cam just before the camalot does, but also seems to have a bit more on the top-end)
- I can't yet speak on the performance of the bare lobes, but I assume it will stick better than the anodized lobes of a brand new c4.
-the piece just seems to exude craftsmanship and is very pleasing on the eyes

Overall, it seems like a solid alternative to the c4, and I'm confident that time will prove itself to be.

Kevin Heinrich · · AMGA Rock Guide · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 286

I'm surprised there aren't more reviews/posts here so I'll add my extremely qualitative/useless $0.02

Just bought a couple Friends (1 and 2) to supplement my BD rack and have put 25 pitches on them in the past two days (brag, sorry. Squamish is incredible).

Bottom line: I LOVE these cams. They feel so good, and I go for them over my C4's. Now maybe my C4s are a little worn but the action on the Friends is really good and they seem to bite into rock like flesh in a zipper. I had a look at the UL C4's at the store but the plastic seems really...bad/uninspiring. I know this isn't great info but seriously these are great. Buy some?

Now someone come up with a good climbing review!

Backwards Eric · · Fargo, ND · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 1,378

Does anyone know if the new WC Friend extendable sling avoids the issue Black Diamond reported here blackdiamondequipment.com/e… ?

Their picture of a Camalot with a 3-4 kN fall and the extendable sling shows it damaged the thumb loop.

tom donnelly · · san diego · Joined Aug 2002 · Points: 364
wildcountry.com/en/new-frie…

strength is 10kN sling extended, and 12kN sling doubled.

I have some of the older DMM 4cu units with doubled sling and have never had an issue with them, though I've never taken much of a fall on them either.
ebmudder · · Bronx, NY · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 55
tom donnelly wrote:http://www.wildcountry.com/en/new-friends#product-tab2 strength is 10kN sling extended, and 12kN sling doubled. I have some of the older DMM 4cu units with doubled sling and have never had an issue with them, though I've never taken much of a fall on them either.
From my reading of the BD article, the deformation of the thumb loop had nothing to do with the fact that there was a double-sling, but the load being placed on the cable. At 3-4 kN the cable deformed enough to permanently bend it into the v-shape. At 10 kN it pinched the sling hard enough to cut through it. That happened with nylon, spectra and doubled spectra slings.

BD's solution was to use two wraps of wide nylon webbing to spread the load across more of the loop. Assuming the thumb loops are made of the same type of cable, you would expect the same outcome with the WC units under load. That is, the cable would permanently deform.
Backwards Eric · · Fargo, ND · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 1,378

I emailed Wild Country about this 4 weeks ago, and they said this was taken into account during the development process, but the follow up email from their product development team never came through even though I've pinged them a couple times since then. I'll post back here if I ever do get that follow up email.

Until then I'll just have to assume the cable will get tweaked under a 3-4 kN load, and the sling will get cut by the cable at 10 kN (which is what it's rated for when the sling is extended, so that part matches up with the BD QC lab article). I don't know if I need a cam to hold up under more than 10 kN, but the 3-4 kN thing seems like something I could generate that on a normal fall and I don't know if the thumb loop is weakened after being bent like that. It's too bad because the extendable sling is something I'd really like to have built into a cam.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
Backwards Eric wrote: I don't know if I need a cam to hold up under more than 10 kN, but the 3-4 kN thing seems like something I could generate that on a normal fall and I don't know if the thumb loop is weakened after being bent like that. It's too bad because the extendable sling is something I'd really like to have built into a cam.
Since it's impossible to load a cam with 10 kN without first loading it with 3-4 kN (and 5, and 6 etc), whatever loop distortion might occur has already taken place, and the unit goes to 10 kN. So your concerns are unfounded.
nathanael · · Riverside, CA · Joined May 2011 · Points: 525

The assumption that the thumb loops are identical is the problem. Yes, BD thumb loops kink with thin slings, but that's because they were designed for wide slings. Aliens and (old) mastercams have thin slings and thumb loops, but they don't kink because they were designed for thin slings. Therefore, having a thumb loop and a thin sling is not reason to assume that the thumb loop will be permanently kinked after small falls.

(I don't have any of the new WC Friends to say definitively one way or the other)

Mike Kann · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 0
Pete Spri wrote:Water freezing inside a hollow axel sounds like a recipe for catastrophic disaster. I can't imagine it would be great for corrosion inside an axel where you can't see it either.
Hi Pete, I'm the poster mentioned above in Matt's original post edit. So the axles are made from a very high grade stainless steel, 17-4ph. This has a tensile similar to high carbon steels as used in c4's, with a tensile strength of in the region of 1000-1100mPa. The critical difference is extremely good corrosion resistance properties - if you get this stuff to corrode due to water or dirt ingress you will need to be doing something special. DMM use I believe the same stuff. Yes you're right, ice could get in there, but when was the last time you saw an ice screw break ;0 If you think about what you're saying, you would have to have a somewhat closed volume for the ice to even start exerting a hoop stress on the axle from the expansion of ice. As it is, you have somewhere for the ice to go - i.e. Out of the ends!

As for kinking, I'm not 100% sure as I wasn't involved in that stage of the design work. But what I do know is that the dyneema used for the sling is substantially fatter than the thin 10mm sling - I believe 14mm which reduces kinking. Also I think the count wire used is greater making it a more flexible wire which is less prone to kinking in the first place but I'm not certain on that. Lastly, the 10kN vs 14kN, that has to do with the extended sling. When double the cams are substantially stronger than their rated strength. But that said, 10kn is plenty - see Metolius. When you consider that the average fall is in the region of 3-7kN, you begin to realise there is a good margin. 14kN yeah, sure, best there is, but will you use it? I think you'd be pushed for sure...
coldfinger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 55

I think these kind of reviews would be more useful and interesting if you included at least some information about what kind of table top you used.

It's the real part of this, for context.

Rob WardenSpaceLizard · · las Vegans, the cosmic void · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 130

. "Aliens and (old) mastercams have thin slings and thumb loops, but they don't kink"

Sorry to be contenious however...

All of mine are kinked from falling on them. My green aliens are really deformed with the sling stripping the plastic tubing off the wire. Its why I had all of them reslung c4 style.

Any U shaped cam with a spreader bar negates the pinching by limiting the compression of the cable by the sling. The compression goes into the spreader bar, the cable is holding the sling with its tensile strength.

All looped cable units suffer from the sling getting pinched and bending the cable. If you like extendable runners get dragons. If you like thumbloops get camalots. If you like your aliens and mastercams, get them reslung c4 style.

Worth it for me.

that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 236

I just got size 1,2 and 3 will be writing a review, initial impressions are.
1. Noticeably lighter with even just a single cam.
2. More flexible than the C4 i think this comes down to not only a different type of wire but also the swage by the cam is different I don't see this making much of a difference unfortunately due to size 1 and down having a single forged head termination (this could be lighter).
3. Not quite as nice a trigger pull in my opinion far from a deal breaker and i prefer it over dmm's dragons (which is fine) it's just not super nice.
4. The extendable sling is super short and i don't see it having much in the way of practical application I played around with some cord and i see no reason why it couldn't have gone round 3 times instead of just twice.
5. Less of a impression on the cam and more on wild country I cant seem to find any information on re-slinging them, it a long way off (hopefully) but it's disconcerting knowing i will have to come up with a new way to re sling my cams.(This point is mute to most of you being americans, you can get just about anyone to re-sling your cams)
6. High standard of manufacturing in general, all in all they seem like a very very well built cam and i would highly reccomend them especially to anyone in the US where the re-sling issue isn't an issue at all.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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