Lock off on a hangboard?

I'm working on a boulder problem that involves a lockoff on a 1 pad 2-finger pocket. I am not currently strong enough to lock off on the hold.

I was thinking of doing some hangboard training to get a little stronger for this problem. My question is, when I'm doing the hangs, should I do them in a straight arm position or locked off, or some of both, and why?

Nivel Egres wrote: Can I ask what problem that is? Are you unable to hold the lock off or unable to hold the hold? Personally, I'd say if you are really looking for specific training, ask your gym to build you a simulator that mimics the problem as closely as possible. Doing a footless lock off on a hang board will not achieve that.

+1

A simulator would be the most efficient tool.

Failing that, pinpointing your weakness to either finger strength or shoulder lock-off strength should dictate the most promising approach.

One subtlety- because of my wrist joint (in)flexibility, as I lock off a hold below my shoulder, my wrist inexorably moves farther from the wall. This extends my fingers and increases the lever arm on the tips.
I find that pure hangboard training does not specifically target this ROM, and have been looking for alternative strategies.

Train for specificity. If you can't lock-off and the problem requires a lock-off...train the lock-off.

Isometrics: climbstrong.com/articles/20…

Thanks guys...

Nivel, the problem is a gym problem, but newly set so will be there for a bit. Basically it's a match on an ok-ish sloper, heel hook at the same height as the sloper, reach high with the right hand to the 2-finger pocket, then cross through with the left to an even higher hold up and right. I can hang fine from the pocket but I can't pull up and lock off on it. I think one factor is that I'm not good at maximizing the heel hook, but part is that I'm too weak to crank on the pocket.

So maybe, based on the above, "locking off" is the wrong term for what I'm having trouble doing? In other words, it's getting TO the lockoff that I'm having trouble with, not maintaining it.

Pictures/video?

To just climb that problem, try the move on its own one session. If you can't do the move in isolation, then pick a different hold to go for which makes the move easier but keeps the kinesthetics similar, and do a few repetitions on this (or just lockoff as far as you can and tap on the wall). Make it hard enough that you can only do the move in isolation at most twice in a row with a tiny rest. Do this four or five times per session until the problem comes down or you climb it.

To get stronger for lockoffs in general, I would recommend using the campus board as the lower arm for any campus movement is in a lockoff position, and due to the intensity when done right this will be a maximum recruitment lockoff, which is what you want. Always reverse the campus sequence (so go down the way you went up) for maximum recruitment on the catching hand and for maximum recruitment while lockoff training.

For lockoffs the exercises I recommend are (1)going up (then down) on the biggest single moves you can manage, (2) keeping the lower hand on a rung and then bumping up the campus board (and then back down) as far as you can lockoff, (3) go up with one hand and then go past that rung with the other hand and try to reach as far as you can (and then back down) as in 1-3-5(match)-3-1, and (4) a couple of sets of standard ladders (go up and down to failure) to round out the workout. As you progress, you can convert ladder sets to more powerful sets and add more ladders to the end of the session. As a result, start out easy (just a few sets of ladders) and work into it, and like with deadlifting focus at first on proper form (shoulders forward and engaged, arms slightly bent). As your muscles grow and your recruitment levels increase, be sure to add in calories to justify all the new fast-twitch muscle mass you will be packing on. You can use sugars at first, but convert over to more nutritious calories as soon as you have the appetite.

I intended this as general advice for increasing ones lockoff power. If anyone wants my credentials on this, they are going from never campusing to 1-5-8 (and back down) on standard spaced medium sized Metolius rungs within a 6 week program while out with a broken foot. Good luck and I hope this helps :)

Chris Webb-Parsons has a good Fingerboard routine
It integrates lock off training with hang boarding and might be a good tool for you. I found it too strenuous to my elbows and shoulders personally but I'm pretty weak.

I do short systems sessions 1-2 times per week to focus on perceived weakness. Currently working on locking off underclings from a backstep. For me this is the best use of a systems wall. You can do this on any bouldering wall, but it's easier to mirror the move on a systems wall. I find it best to break down the move and not try to get finger training at the same time. So in your case start with a jug and healhook pull to a good edge and lock it off while reaching with your free hand. I try to hold the lock-off for 3-5 seconds per side with the reaching hand hovering over a hold. If I start to fall out of position I momentarily latch the hold and pull back into the lock off.

If you can easily lock off the good edge try making the wall steeper, then using a smaller hold. Then try with a similar sized pocket. Here is a video that may help. Climb Strong Systems Training

Mark E Dixon wrote:Pictures/video?

That's a great idea even independent of posting it here. Video can really teach you a lot. It'll be about 2 weeks before I can get back there, but I'll post it up if it's not too mortifying to watch.

Kevin Stricker wrote:Chris Webb-Parsons has a good Fingerboard routine It integrates lock off training with hang boarding and might be a good tool for you. I found it too strenuous to my elbows and shoulders personally but I'm pretty weak. I do short systems sessions 1-2 times per week to focus on perceived weakness. Currently working on locking off underclings from a backstep. For me this is the best use of a systems wall. You can do this on any bouldering wall, but it's easier to mirror the move on a systems wall. I find it best to break down the move and not try to get finger training at the same time. So in your case start with a jug and healhook pull to a good edge and lock it off while reaching with your free hand. I try to hold the lock-off for 3-5 seconds per side with the reaching hand hovering over a hold. If I start to fall out of position I momentarily latch the hold and pull back into the lock off. If you can easily lock off the good edge try making the wall steeper, then using a smaller hold. Then try with a similar sized pocket. Here is a video that may help. Climb Strong Systems Training

Thanks for those links Kevin, I'll check them out. I like the suggestion of simulating somewhat easier versions of the problem and progressively ratcheting up the difficulty. It may well be that practicing the heel hook could be a big help all by itself, this problem is basically the first time I've ever used a heel hook. (I learned to climb a long time ago!)

I'm resurrecting this thread to ask what folks think of including lockoff positions while hangboarding. 

I have included a full and a 90 degree lockoff (8 second max hang) for each of my HB grips for the last 6 weeks. 

It may be time to change things up- or maybe I need to persevere. Haven't noticed much effect so far and could either shorten the routine, or replace the lockoff reps with doubles/triples or more max hangs. 

How did things go with you, Optimistic?

Locking off while hang boarding is likely not a good idea. All of the current hang boarding related material really pushes for hanging with almost straight arms with just the slightest elbow/bicep engagement with the elbows turned slightly in to protect the shoulders and elbows. It is likely safer to just hang board to build strength, and then do lockoff training on ok holds on the wall, preferably at a similar angle as the current problem, with bicep/back isolation work to build the muscle mass and connective tissue separately.

The Beastmaker site used to have a program that included lockoffs. The training section of their site is currently Error 404, Page not found.

I think I copied it and can post it up if there's interest.

Maybe they had second thoughts about the program.

I respect the training gurus, but they don't know everything.

So I'm not bothered that some of them don't seem to advocate what I'm considering.

Mark E Dixon wrote:

I'm resurrecting this thread to ask what folks think of including lockoff positions while hangboarding. 

I have included a full and a 90 degree lockoff (8 second max hang) for each of my HB grips for the last 6 weeks. 

It may be time to change things up- or maybe I need to persevere. Haven't noticed much effect so far and could either shorten the routine, or replace the lockoff reps with doubles/triples or more max hangs. 

How did things go with you, Optimistic?

I ended up feeling like the move was just too far beyond me strength wise, and that I was going to get hurt if I kept trying it. Also I kept finding more and more weaknesses in my technique, and figured I should focus on those weaknesses by bouldering more and not worrying about hangboarding for the moment... I feel like I've gotten some dividends from that approach, but the particular problem I mentioned in the original post is gone now so I've had to let that one go.