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How do you interpret safety ratings?

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640
Hank Caylor wrote:Totally right?! I was going to complain, then I quickly realized desert rats wouldn't give a crap and that's just how the topos are and promptly stopped caring. Been in a state of bliss since then.
Character building------X rated routes create real characters.

i thought I was gonna die, but didn't ....cool.
King Tut · · Citrus Heights · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 430

G = Frozen, Aladdin, Munginella, Flatirons...shit like that.
PG = Guns a blazin' but no splatter fest.
R = Nudity, Violence plenty o' ketchup.
X = Full on corn holin' with no apologies.

whats not to like.

steverett · · Boston, MA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 105
John Barritt wrote: If you cats ever get to Oklahoma you'll know what X and R really mean. R=Runout X=dangerous runout. But there's always a bolt or placement at or below the crux. You guys are "over the top" with this you will die crap. Over half the routes at my home climbing areas are "X" and "R" rated. Apparently sport climbing and the over use of bolts in general seems to have "softened" the climbing community. Zero risk is the same as the elevator.....where's the fun in that? If you are a strong 5.10 climber but won't do a 5.7 or 5.8 because it has an X or R behind it you will miss a lot of fun climbs. JB
Hmmm... sounds like R and X are less scary in OK then? I always thought PG13 = Runout, R = Dangerous runout (probably hit a ledge or ground from short distance), X=almost no gear, crux unprotected.

If even an X has a bolt below the crux, what about one that doesn't? Or if there is OK gear only after the crux, so you are looking at a groundfall at the crux? That is what X means to me.
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252
King Tut wrote:G = Frozen, Aladdin, Munginella, Flatirons...shit like that. PG = Guns a blazin' but no splatter fest. R = Nudity, Violence plenty o' ketchup. X = Full on corn holin' with no apologies. whats not to like.
Erm...
mountainproject.com/v/direc…
John Barritt · · The 405 · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,083
steverett wrote: Hmmm... sounds like R and X are less scary in OK then? I always thought PG13 = Runout, R = Dangerous runout (probably hit a ledge or ground from short distance), X=almost no gear, crux unprotected. If even an X has a bolt below the crux, what about one that doesn't? Or if there is OK gear only after the crux, so you are looking at a groundfall at the crux? That is what X means to me.
If by less scary you mean the 40' run out to the first bolt (at the crux) doesn't bother you then yes. I was trying to articulate that run outs or possible ground falls don't make the climb any harder. Before the Bosch bulldog bolts were drilled with hand drills. So in OK the older FAs got bolts at the crux or when someone started getting uncomfortable. As long as you keep your cool and climb within your ability level the X and R aren't a factor. JB
Don Ferris III · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 186

PG-13: big falls on good gear certain. Perhaps marginal pieces between bomber pieces. unlikely to be injured.

R: big falls with injury likely. Death unlikely...as long as key protection opportunities are taken advantage of. If you're going to fall, know how to fall and have a plan.

X: Injury certain, severe injury likely, death likely. Few bomber protection possibilities. DO NOT FALL.

What gets me is you'll find dozens of YouTube videos of people regularly taking massive whippers on 12-13r routes. If I'm 10-15 feet above my last piece, I assume a hospital visit if I fall. I guess it's relative to the leaders experience.

David Gibbs · · Ottawa, ON · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2
King Tut wrote:G = Frozen, Aladdin, Munginella, Flatirons...shit like that. PG = Guns a blazin' but no splatter fest. R = Nudity, Violence plenty o' ketchup. X = Full on corn holin' with no apologies. whats not to like.
The Flatirons have some very definitely not-G routes on them. The climbing might be mellow, but it can also be very run-out. And if that climbing is at/near your limit, that isn't a G climb.
steverett · · Boston, MA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 105
John Barritt wrote: If by less scary you mean the 40' run out to the first bolt (at the crux) doesn't bother you then yes. I was trying to articulate that run outs or possible ground falls don't make the climb any harder. Before the Bosch bulldog bolts were drilled with hand drills. So in OK the older FAs got bolts at the crux or when someone started getting uncomfortable. As long as you keep your cool and climb within your ability level the X and R aren't a factor. JB
Gotcha. I learned to climb in CT where there usually aren't even bolts, so an X climb would likely mean leading on skyhooks. X means you should be able to solo the grade.

A 40' runout to the first bolt sounds like R, if the climbing is easier (i.e. a 5.7X section before the 5.10 crux).

I didn't see many arguments here that it makes the climb any harder, just that the consequences for falling increase, so you need to be more sure of what you're doing.
King Tut · · Citrus Heights · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 430
David Gibbs wrote: The Flatirons have some very definitely not-G routes on them. The climbing might be mellow, but it can also be very run-out. And if that climbing is at/near your limit, that isn't a G climb.
Something that has been done in roller skates is Disney rated lol.
David Gibbs · · Ottawa, ON · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2
King Tut wrote: Something that has been done in roller skates is Disney rated lol.
IIRC, that was the Third (Flatiron). The First is a tad different.

And, again, ease of climbing and protection are different things. G/PG/R/X is about protection, not how hard the climbing is. Someone climbing it in roller skates talks about ease of climbing, not ease of protection.
john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640
Hobo Greg wrote: Hahahaha, where do you climb?? Anywhere there is trad and slab, there is plenty of X. Empress 5.5X in the Dacks. White Wilderness 5.8X in New Hampshire, Lickety Splits 5.7X in Josh. And while a slab X might be a little different than a more vertical climb, to say that maybe X shouldnt even exist because there are few X climbs is both silly and incorrect.
WEll, I have climbed in quite a few areas..if your definition of X is that you will die from a fall, then few X rated routes will flat out kill you.

You may go far, but still live

FYI - i have done every route on the whitehorse slabs except Cormier-magness. The only one you will die on for sure is Body Surfing.
Hank Caylor · · Livin' in the Junk! · Joined Dec 2003 · Points: 643
Hobo Greg wrote: Sure, I'll take the word of a guy who climbs in a state where most routes are just barely tall enough to die on.
I totally get where your flippant comment came from, but Oklahoma actually has plenty of stuff to go get yourself maimed or dead on. Certainly not a destination for most climbers, but several great chunks of granite that offer that sweet "death experience" if you beef it.

This is Quartz Mountain, it looks slabby and awful but actually has plenty of steep and runout granite climbs as well as very excellent bouldering.
Quartz Mountain, OK
Quartz Mountain, OK

Duane Raleigh talked me into repeating a 5.11 called Wild Child back in the late 80's there, scared the shit out of me just like I like.
steverett · · Boston, MA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 105
Hank Caylor wrote: I totally get where your flippant comment came from, but Oklahoma actually has plenty of stuff to go get yourself maimed or dead on. Certainly not a destination for most climbers, but several great chunks of granite that offer that sweet "death experience" if you beef it. This is Quartz Mountain, it looks slabby and awful but actually has plenty of steep and runout granite climbs as well as very excellent bouldering. Duane Raleigh talked me into repeating a 5.11 called Wild Child back in the late 80's there, scared the shit out of me just like I like.
If only there were a website where you could easily look up climbs by state...
John Barritt · · The 405 · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,083
Hobo Greg wrote: Sure, I'll take the word of a guy who climbs in a state where most routes are just barely tall enough to die on.
Wahhaahah....as opossed to the word of a guy with a bunch of "tall" routes on his tick list that are too easy to ever fall off of. In OK where the climbs are short 5.4 is considered a "walk off" ;)
M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090
Brady3 wrote: ...and none that will tolerate a hike more than 15 min...
Hopefully you are exaggerating. If not, that is pretty sad they are such wimps. They are going to miss out on a lot of good times. Then again I suppose I should be glad; it allows me to take a little walk and enjoy great climbing away from complete mob scenes.
john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640
M Sprague wrote: Hopefully you are exaggerating. If not, that is pretty sad they are such wimps. They are going to miss out on a lot of good times. Then again I suppose I should be glad; it allows me to take a little walk and enjoy great climbing away from complete mob scenes.
AND if it's runout, no one will here your screams as you rocket towards the earth

OK has a great selection of deadly routes..almost as killer as the snakes !!!
Brady3 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 15
M Sprague wrote: Hopefully you are exaggerating. If not, that is pretty sad they are such wimps. They are going to miss out on a lot of good times. Then again I suppose I should be glad; it allows me to take a little walk and enjoy great climbing away from complete mob scenes.
Actually no with some of them. But it does depend some what on the terrain to get there, the walk to Canal Zone in CCC isn't a problem but an approach with similar steepness and distance but a much less developed trail is unbearable (the less developed trail also means we have never seen anyone else there).
Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422

I personally tend to associate X more with really suck pro and other objective hazards (loose rock, sharp edges, etc.) in association with runouts rather than just runouts alone which I generally tend to categorize more as R. There are certainly routes with an X rating based on runouts alone such as ones Hank has tangled with in the past, but they were typically the result of a mix of the ethics-of-the-time and available drilling stances rather than being contrived as some I've seen and heard of where the route is basically 'constructed' for the purpose of that rating.

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

Ya, if your gonna take, say, a 20 footer, but smack hard on a ledge then roll off...that's a bit worse

King Tut · · Citrus Heights · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 430
Healyje wrote:I personally tend to associate X more with really suck pro and other objective hazards (loose rock, sharp edges, etc.) in association with runouts rather than just runouts alone which I generally tend to categorize more as R. There are certainly routes with an X rating based on runouts alone such as ones Hank has tangled with in the past, but they were typically the result of a mix of the ethics-of-the-time and available drilling stances rather than being contrived as some I've seen and heard of where the route is basically 'constructed' for the purpose of that rating.
Ya, it is one thing entirely to take what the route gives you, another to engineer a route to purposely endanger others rather than simply challenge them.

Some will say "well, just don't climb that route"...but fact of the matter in the most popular areas it is a common shared resource, not necessarily a place to create monuments to egos.

Some truly historical routes should be preserved, but others can be called botched jobs (and I include my own routes in this regard).
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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