Are climbers hypocrites?

Simple solution to the question.

Are you human?

If yes than you are hypocrite, if no than you may not be.

Patrick Shyvers wrote:Don't forget, your individual choices to recycle, or grow a garden, or live out of a hut are a drop in the ocean. IMO, spreading small improvements to millions of people are far more valuable than undertaking dramatic improvements for just yourself. It's important to improve yourself to lead by example, but getting others to follow your lead is critical.

Maybe you didn't mean it this way, but that comes off as implying "making these dramatic personal lifestyle choices is insignificant if others don't follow your lead".

If that's what you meant, then I disagree. The only way others can follow a lead is if someone actually takes a lead. If they do make dramatic lifestyle changes, they can't force anyone to follow. However, any reductions to their personal impact are still there as a result of their doing it, and it creates the opportunity to follow for anyone who sees them doing it.

Yes we are. Not as bad as skiers, and that is only because there are more people skiing. But so is every other human being on this planet, better accept our nature and society.

What is the alternative? Give up technology, and go back to a preindustrial society. STOP USING MP? No fucking way!

dpierce wrote: Living in my van, I don't take showers but maybe once a week if I want to feel rich and classy. Typically, I bathe in a river without soap or shampoo. All I'm really trying to say through all of this is it is all perspective. I'm not trying to burn you, but you may see it that way. On one hand, what you're doing is great, when compared to those around you. You think you're the shit for being so environmental friendly, and you wanted to display that by making your post here. Dude, I'm personally proud of you. But on the other hand, you could look at it from my perspective. You're the guy who still thinks it is necessary to live in a house with AC and have a shower every day, not to mention all of the other creature comforts that you experience compared to me. I bet you sleep on a really nice bed every night. But does that mean that what I'm doing is right? Absolutely not. For an easy comparison, I bet tribal communities, or hey, even Amish, think that it is extremely wasteful of me to own a vehicle that I didn't build myself and doesn't run off of grass and water. I also don't grow any of my own food, but instead, use money to purchase food that is grown in industrial agriculture situations. There's a ton of waste involved in clear-cutting huge swaths of land to grow crops which require heavy machinery to harvest and plant. Part of the reason I started living the way I do is because I had the same thoughts as you do currently. And I still do have a lot of those thoughts. But the main takeaway I've had from living in a van with a comparatively small carbon footprint to the rest of America is this: everything, including nature, will be gone some day. maybe because you die or maybe because the entire planet is nuked to hell.

Inspiration. Thank you...

dpierce wrote: I have been living out of my van for the past two, and up until June, worked a very respectable job.

I think it is time for you to change your profile picture to of you playing guitar by your van instead of a nice suburban house. Maybe something like this will be nice?

Julian, I tried my bestest with the updated profile pic. Surprisingly, I don't have any of me outside my van playing guitar. But in order to really capture that whole "I am the epitome of a natural man yet secretly have no idea what I'm doing" thing, I completely agree with you that the suburban house in the background of my previous pic killed that character image. Thanks!

Love the comments about human population. It's disgusting. My parents were both 29 when they gave birth to me, then got divorced 2 years later. My upbringing was unimportant for one of these individuals. I grew and entered adulthood with emotional strain and more question than if my situation were different. People's caring for one another only goes so far. People get burned out on what they have, want more, switch their focus from what used to be important, to the new and interesting. This creates waste. The fundamental opposite of getting the most use out of something. It's the raw animal equivalent to a dog looking at something, tilting it's head, sniffing it, etc. The dog never benefitted from it in the long run LOL! I'll be 29 in a month, and not emotionally-attached to a female human enough to wanna mate, reproduce, and develop a younger human being. One of my parents were truly in question about being "all in" on this concept. There are many humans coexisting with each other that are in a quiet battle for basic survival, with different, filthy methods. How long will it take for evolution to decide which category of human beings have the right priorities, in the best interest of our home planet? I don't see a ton of climbers burning a bunch of fuel to outrun other competitors to the finish line. I love climbing and other climbers because of how naturally we all flow.

dpierce, that photo reminds me of Cody or Matt on Dual Survivor. Nice makeshift shelter. Looks cozy. Even have the 'Cody" barefoot thing going.

some yes

The OP has made an incorrect assumption. Climbers are not strong proponents of the environment. They care about themselves and their activities like the majority of other people. Actions speak louder than words. You can tell what is important to someone by what they do with their free time. If a person is not taking the time to educate themselves and making changes in their life then they don’t really care.

Meat consumption has a higher environmental impact than transportation. Essentially, a vegetarian that drives a Hummer has a smaller footprint than a meat eater that rides a bike. This planet can support life on a large scale. Humans are only replacing the other living organisms they are destroying. Over-population of humans is only a problem if they all live like Americans.

Living a sustainable lifestyle requires people to make sacrifices and changes that they aren’t willing to make so they rationalize the current situation as a way to clear their mind of any responsibility. If you’re not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

dpierce wrote:Julian, I tried my bestest with the updated profile pic. Surprisingly, I don't have any of me outside my van playing guitar. But in order to really capture that whole "I am the epitome of a natural man yet secretly have no idea what I'm doing" thing, I completely agree with you that the suburban house in the background of my previous pic killed that character image. Thanks!

I'm more critical of myself than of other people. I'm the to fist one to admit I'm an asshole.

Just couldn't help myself it is tiled "Are climbers hypocrites?" :-) In a way it is more honest than a staged photograph that most people post to show how cool they are. Although, that guitar is pretty skinny ;-) Make sure it gets used and gets some scratches

Kent Richards wrote: Maybe you didn't mean it this way, but that comes off as implying "making these dramatic personal lifestyle choices is insignificant if others don't follow your lead". If that's what you meant, then I disagree. The only way others can follow a lead is if someone actually takes a lead. If they do make dramatic lifestyle changes, they can't force anyone to follow. However, any reductions to their personal impact are still there as a result of their doing it, and it creates the opportunity to follow for anyone who sees them doing it.

I don't think he meant it that way. I think he means more along the lines of, "You're only one person out of 300 million+ people in this country. How much will the overall impact of the country change with one person no longer having any impact?"

What sucks is that no matter what you do, no matter how good you try to be about your environmental impact, you will always affect it somehow. There's absolutely no way around that. But I think what Patrick is saying is that if even 50 million people in the US decided to start riding their bikes to work, or used public transportation, or became vegetarian, that it would have a significant impact. And the only way to get that amount of people to do that is with educating your fellow man.

climbing friend,

yes you are the hypocrite and so is everyone.

yes you are destroying the earth any efforts to contrary are drop in bucket possibly delaying earth demise only microfraction of second.

yes your children they are the worst possible thing imaginable for the earth.

yes your meat and dairy eating is enormous waste and greenhouse gas producer.

you're killing your father.

the donald trump appoint man to head EPA who sued the EPA for trying to protect the environment.

slap yourself in the face. society has come too far past point of no return. only hope is colonizing and ruining other planets in succession.

unless you are living off of grid, smashing open fish skulls for your protein power meat and eating copious amounts of leaves, stems, and chutes, you are the problem.

all your flash are belong to me.

climbing friend,

goodbye pretty earth
how i loved to grab your rocks
see you other side

Possibly, yes. But I think a hypocrite would be unaware that they are not "walking the walk" so to speak. Climbers who engage in all the behaviors you list and still think they are saving the environment are certainly hypocrites. But most climbers I know are aware of their impact.

Maybe "conflicted" is a better way to describe climbers? They want to conserve the environment and most even take some actions toward that goal, but at the same time they continue to participate in activities that they know damage the environment because they love these activities. They're doing the best they can. As with others on this thread, I'm okay with it...

youtu.be/4rvuueqs3vI

This

Also this reminds me of that movie Kingsman: The Secret Service. Samuel L. Jackson's character says that humans are the worst thing to happen to the planet so by killing off a billion people the world will be a better place.

• ************NIHLISM INTENSIFIES*************

The reason y'all can waste vast amounts of time climbing and whatever else you choose for recreation is because of all the energy and industrial development mankind has created the past 150 or so years; eliminating the need to farm and hunt your own food, chop your own wood, build your own house, sew your own clothes, feed and shelter your own horses, so on and on.
Economic development and wealth creation is what keeps population in check, poverty is what blows it up.
Soon enough very hard times will return, they always do. Climbing will then only be a warm memory of back when things were good. I'd suggest enjoying the life while you can.

Mike Lane wrote:The reason y'all can waste vast amounts of time climbing and whatever else you choose for recreation is because of all the energy and industrial development mankind has created the past 150 or so years; eliminating the need to farm and hunt your own food, chop your own wood, build your own house, sew your own clothes, feed and shelter your own horses, so on and on. Economic development and wealth creation is what keeps population in check, poverty is what blows it up. Soon enough very hard times will return, they always do. Climbing will then only be a warm memory of back when things were good. I'd suggest enjoying the life while you can.

The end is near?