Totem cams

So are these cams manufactured for Kailas by Totem, or are they ripping off the design? Except for the logo they look identical to Totems.

And for what it is worth, Totem cams have replaced the smaller C4s on my rack. They just seem to work everywhere.

For Kailas, made by Totem. They're awesome.

Schalk wrote:So are these cams manufactured for Kailas by Totem, or are they ripping off the design?

There's also a good looking Alien clone on that Kailas website.

Chris Vinson wrote:For Kailas, made by Totem. They're awesome.

That's technically correct. But IFAIK, Kailas has bought out Totem, Edelrid & a couple other companies. Totem cams are still manufactured in Spain. It's possible they may all get rebranded (I'm holding a set of Kailas brand Totem basics) once Kailas gets some brand recognition in the state side.

Edited to add, I played with some Totem cams & realized my worries about instability of narrow head is mostly unfound. They still are very complex & probably an overkill in places like the creek. Otherwise, I think they are superior to the BD X4s in the overlapping sizes.

reboot wrote: That's technically correct. But IFAIK, Kailas has bought out Totem, Edelrid & a couple other companies. Totem cams are still manufactured in Spain. It's possible they may all get rebranded (I'm holding a set of Kailas brand Totem basics) once Kailas gets some brand recognition in the state side. Edited to add, I played with some Totem cams & realized my worries about instability of narrow head is mostly unfound. They still are very complex & probably an overkill in places like the creek. Otherwise, I think they are superior to the BD X4s in the overlapping sizes.

Source?

The ownership of Totem remains the same as at the beginning. The production... improving and at same place. We will move our factory in next weeks to another one in same city.
By the way, Totem MT is a cooperative company. That means the owners must be at same time workers. In our case is an special kind of cooperative. We have a venture capital investor form the Basque government. On 2015 will be entirely of workers again.

Ah, rumours debunked.

Thank you.

reboot wrote: But IFAIK, Kailas has bought out Totem, Edelrid & a couple other companies.

Eh? Edelrid is part of the Vaude group.

Jim Titt wrote: Eh? Edelrid is part of the Vaude group.

I stand corrected. I should have said it was a rumor (heard from some Kailas sponsored climbers visiting the US). Google says Kailas became the distributor for Vaude group in China recently. I surmise Totem is simply distributed under the Kailas brand in China as well. That's far from being "owned" by Kaila (although suppose REI had been the sole US distributor of CCH Aliens before its demise, how independent would CCH have been?).

Finally got a new set of Totems. They look awesome. If only the weather didn't call for 106 temps this weekend in Washington!

so Kailas didn't infringe on Totem's copyright but they have some kind of agreement? What about the other stuff Kailas labels and sells? Just wondering how legit their stuff is and whether it goes through the same rigorous quality control.

I ordered a set of Kailas branded Totems on sale at $65/ea. Shipping from China was only one week. Different logo and numbering system, but they appear to be perfectly good Totems.

Adam Byrd wrote:I ordered a set of Kailas branded Totems on sale at $65/ea. Shipping from China was only one week. Different logo and numbering system, but they appear to be perfectly good Totems.

Let us know after you take some whippers on them, or have your partner post while they wait in the ER!

Nick Drake wrote: Let us know after you take some whippers on them, or have your partner post while they wait in the ER!

Totem has confirmed these are Totem cams, manufactured by Totem, with the Kailas logo.

Since Totem does not and has not manufactured in Chian, there is zero chance a factory in China knows how to make a Totem look alike.

I just ordered a regular and basic Totem from the Kailas site. Free shipping and prices are $53 for the Basic and $65 for the Regular.

Wow, this is a twist in the 'how can I get some Totems?' game!......

Who confirmed with Mikel at Totems that these are the real cams made in Spain?.......nothing will amaze me this year, lol

Erik
Rockclimbyosemite.com

Erik Sloan wrote:Wow, this is a twist in the 'how can I get some Totems?' game!...... Who confirmed with Mikel at Totems that these are the real cams made in Spain?.......nothing will amaze me this year, lol Erik Rockclimbyosemite.com

Mikel did back a page or two.

jason.cre wrote: Totem has confirmed these are Totem cams, manufactured by Totem, with the Kailas logo. Since Totem does not and has not manufactured in Chian, there is zero chance a factory in China knows how to make a Totem look alike.

It's pretty damn easy to reverse engineer a cam and the Chinese manufacturers are quite versed at doing so. That being said, I do see a post from 2013 saying totem manufactured for other companies. Things can change in 3 years.

Nick Drake wrote: It's pretty damn easy to reverse engineer a cam and the Chinese manufacturers are quite versed at doing so. That being said, I do see a post from 2013 saying totem manufactured for other companies. Things can change in 3 years.

If this is true, do you know of any cases of a knockoff cam hitting the market? I would be very interested in evidence that Chinese companies are reverse engineering and producing knockoff cams.

The only notices I have heard were of simple hardware, like carabiners, which were produced in the same region the company was already manufacturing its products (i.e. the chinese knockoff didnt reverse manufacture, they took the dies and molds directly from the original manufacturer)

Nick Drake wrote: It's pretty damn easy to reverse engineer a cam and the Chinese manufacturers are quite versed at doing so. That being said, I do see a post from 2013 saying totem manufactured for other companies. Things can change in 3 years.

If you check the Great Online Deals Thread, someone there checked with Totem a few weeks ago, and confirmed that the Kailas cams are just re-branded Totems, manufactured by Totem at their facilities in Spain.