Do I need to get stronger to improve from here?

Dylan 11111 wrote: I don't think I have ever hear a firsthand account of someone injuring themselves while hang-boarding. I don't know if this is because less people hang-board in general but all the injuries I have seen have been caused by aggressively projecting routes. Usually hang-board training guides bill the exercise as preventative training for the kind of aggressive climbing needed for higher grades. Even though many people think the opposite.

I have. So has my husband. I believe both injuries happened while doing hangs with added weight. I have also injured myself by "aggressively projecting", which is mainly why I eventually gave up projecting.

Dylan 11111 wrote: I don't think I have ever hear a firsthand account of someone injuring themselves while hang-boarding. I don't know if this is because less people hang-board in general but all the injuries I have seen have been caused by aggressively projecting routes. Usually hang-board training guides bill the exercise as preventative training for the kind of aggressive climbing needed for higher grades. Even though many people think the opposite.

Anecdotally my experience is the same. People are always quick to say you shouldn't hangboard because it can cause injuries, but I've yet to meet someone who received a finger injury hangboarding. Hangboarding lets you slowly increase the load in a safe and incremental manner (quite unlike bouldering). Personally I've had no injuries and almost no finger pain since I started hangboarding regularly. I think that may be because now I have the strength to hold onto small holds in a position that is safer for my fingers.

SethG wrote:You have FAR more to gain from experience and refining your technique than from strength training, which may lead to injuries.

Wow, Mary! I think you're doing great and should be proud of your climbing so far!

I tend to agree with Seth. Nobody here has seen you climb, so people can only guess at what is holding you back. However, I think it's difficult to develop great technique in only a year, and I've seen a lot of people try to compensate for poor technique by concentrating on strength. You'll need a combination of the two in order to reach your full potential, and at this point, I'm willing to be you'd see the fastest gains by focusing on your technique.

That's not to say you shouldn't strength train! I'm a thin girl who has trouble building muscle, and lifting/hang boarding has been very helpful for me. I'd read the training books people have suggested here, since I bet they'll give you example workouts and help you transition into a training program in a way that minimizes the chances of injury.

Also, make sure you know how to find and utlilize rests for route climbing.

pretty funny that OP is trying to break into 5.12's and the first reply is from the guy who wrote the book "how to climb 5.12" (Unless there is some other Horst.) Then, down thread someone tells her she should read that book. She already got individually tailored advice right from the author.

"climbing is best way to get stronger for climbing". This is not true in your current situation. Yes you will get stonger by simply climbing a lot but at a pretty slow rate compared to taking a more focused and direct approach( TRAINING). I believed that exact quote of yours for many years because training was not fun and I climb for fun.

I decided climbing 5.11 was great but if I could climb 5.12 i would have much more fun so I finally gave into Training this past summer.

There are many routes you can take so I do not want to lay out a work out regime, read some books and articles for that. But bottom line is, you should start getting a little more strategic about it if you really want to break into a new plane. climbing 100 5.11s will not prepare you for the type of movement, strength and holds (size and grip technique) you will need to be comfortable with in the 5.12 range ( take my advice with a grain of salt, I have only sent one 5.12, but worked many now )

What helped me?
Weighted finger board workouts by far yielded the most improvement for me personally. at first I just used a 10 lb weight and jugs, then slowly progressed to a 10lb weight and holds I would consider of 5.12 size. Now I am breaking into 20 lbs . The extra weight begins to feel normal after about two weeks and then when you hit the real rock you feel light as a feather.

I am a fat ash so the other key factor that played into breaking through for me was just focusing on my core strength. I noticed after about a month of focusing on my lower back and abbs, all the movement on the rock felt way easier on my 5.12 projects and this really helped me stabilize myself in awkward climbing positions, etc.

JohnnyG wrote:pretty funny that OP is trying to break into 5.12's and the first reply is from the guy who wrote the book "how to climb 5.12" (Unless there is some other Horst.) Then, down thread someone tells her she should read that book. She already got individually tailored advice right from the author.

Pretty sure it's a different Horst.

It's already been said, but I'll say it again, after only a year of climbing, I can guarentee you that technique is the biggest thing holding you back. Would being stronger help you out? Of course it would, but you'll make much bigger gains much faster if you work on developing the technique to climb smarter instead of just stronger. There are lots of books out there that give examples of drills to do that help develop technique, pick one up and really work on understanding how to make your movement more efficient. Good luck!

Now that I've learned from another thread that 5.13 is a beginner grade, it makes perfect sense that people are now bummed to not be crushing 12s after a year.

Thanks MP!

marylynneza wrote:I know climbing is the best way to get stronger for climbing

I have a friend who ascribes to that view, but I disagree. It's really hard to execute the basic tenants of effective strength training- periodicity, progressive overload, and gradualness- while climbing.

I wish I could climb 5.11s first year of climbing... or even second year of climbing...

Variety...go bouldering, do easy stuff you suck at,, longer routes...all of it.

You'll get better because you will learn more.

kennoyce wrote:I can guarentee you that technique is the biggest thing holding you back.

Agreed, especially with just a year. Build a base. A few things to consider:
1, Muscles respond to new stimuli within weeks. Tendons respond sometimes in years. Your muscles can become so strong that they outpace tendons and you'll end up with tendon injuries.

EDIT: Point 1 may be incorrect as I cannot find the source. "Mismatch" as described later is not the point. The point is that tendons need TLC as you get stronger so don't neglect them.

2, If I recall correctly, Horst says the "average" climber can climb 5.12 (that is, has the capability to). Dave MacLeod asserts that "most climbers are strong enough for their projects." Technique, efficiency, understanding your body mechanics, being smart about rests, etc., are going to be the key players.

3, You'll get as many different pieces of advice as there are forum members. Go ahead and experiment. Figure out what works for you. I can only (currently) climb 5.12 after a season of training and projecting. Others can climb 5.12 off the couch, but that's also as hard as they climb.

4, Really listen to your body. If you feel soreness in your fingers, stop! If a move feels tweaky, stop!

Charlie S wrote:Muscles respond to new stimuli within weeks. Tendons respond sometimes in years.

What's the scientific evidence for that?

Anyway "normal" tendons (the kind with one on each end of a muscle to connect the contracting muscle to bone or other connectors), are about four times stronger than muscle.

It's the non-normal pulleys and rings that have strength mis-match problems.

Ken

kenr wrote: What's the scientific evidence for that?

EDIT: Deleted due to erroneous/incorrect recall of information.

Don't forget that 5.11 is really 5.11a, b, c, and d. This often doesn't translate in gyms, but it is a very big difference outside. The difference between 5.11a and 5.12a is 4 grades, the same difference between 5.6 and 5.10a.

I've spent years going from 5.11a to 5.12a. The quickness you went through the early grades just means you are a pretty strong person. This is where you really need to learn how to climb, and you need to get used to being very patient and/or working very very hard to keep pushing the grade. Have fun with it!

You are really doing well climbing at the level you have achieved in such a short time. To progress you need to start learning to vary your techniques. Do you climb with men or women? Do most of your peers climb at the same or a higher level? Ideally you could find a female climber with a similar build who climbs 5.12 that you could watch and model movement patterns. This is much easier to do while bouldering. I wouldn't worry to much with any types of structured training quite yet, but you can start to track your climbing intensity and attempt to increase it over time. A climbing coach would also be a good way to get feedback on your technique. Video yourself on routes, and ideally you can get video of more advanced climbers doing the same routes.

Good luck.

Just my two cents...

I've found that climbing outside as much as I can is the funnest, most holistic approach to get better at climbing. Always learning, always inspired!

Screw training, and screw the books. If you comfortably climb 5.11, 5.12- shouldn't be far off in terms of strength, endurance, or technique -- of course, this depends on how your gym is set, how good the setting is at the grade, etc.

Find partners who are climbing the grades you want to break into. Find out how they project routes, have them steer you towards 5.12s that are more or less in your ability range, have them point out the aspects of your climbing or technique that are potentially holding you back, etc. Oh, and get outside your gym to do some real climbing.

5.12 is not a difficult barrier to break into in the grand scheme. Again, if 5.11 is comfortable and the grades are accurately set at your gym (often times not the case!), you shouldn't have too much trouble finding 12- or 11+ lines that are realistically projectable.

It's fairly obvious that the grades are inflated, but that's irrelevant. If she is climbing 11s at her gym and wants to climb 12s at her gym, that is an achievable goal.

Ted Pinson wrote:It's fairly obvious that the grades are inflated, but that's irrelevant. If she is climbing 11s at her gym and wants to climb 12s at her gym, that is an achievable goal.

Not always the case. Been to comically sandbagged facilities with hilariously bizarre and inconsistent grades, and been to gyms that left me with an inflated ego.

Bottom line is that if the OP climbs 5.11 reliably, there ought to be a number of transitionary 5.12- routes that will help her break into the grade range that she wants. Having a partner or friend that is experienced with projecting and working said transitionary routes is key.

If there is too much of a gap between 11s and 12s at the gym (happens often), one can always ask the setters for a borderline 11/12 -- I'm sure the OP isn't the only person in her gym looking to begin sending 5.12.