What makes "the Euros" better?

A lack of the type of blatant bias which makes people think that endomorphs, and people who agree to make the world most amenable to endomorphs, are some as-of-yet-to-be-discovered trove of athletic superiority yet to be unleashed upon the Earth, and thus they put the resources into the right people?

Khoi wrote:Climbers in Europe didn't get held back by counterproductive mindsets like (but not limited to): - Climbing MUST be done ground up onsight! - Sport climbing is neither - NO HANGDOGING!!!!

How is living in the 70's still? 8 tracks still going strong?

Khoi wrote:Climbers in Europe didn't get held back by counterproductive mindsets like (but not limited to): - Climbing MUST be done ground up onsight! - Sport climbing is neither - NO HANGDOGING!!!!

Ya, a lot of this.

NorCalNomad wrote: How is living in the 70's still? 8 tracks still going strong?

This is still going on in a lot of places in the country. Hows your bubble of wherever the place you live? I'm sure its great cuz its all you know!

Khoi wrote:Climbers in Europe didn't get held back by counterproductive mindsets like (but not limited to): - Climbing MUST be done ground up onsight! - Sport climbing is neither - NO HANGDOGING!!!!

Indeed climbing in the US does have a history of good style, and at it's best has always been more than a graded gymnastic routine.

Nivel Egres wrote: And yet European climbers show up and climb our trad test pieces with ease.

They are in better shape. Climbing harder shit means stronger people. Instead of warming up on a 9 or 10 they warm up on a 12 bolt to bolt.

How is it not obvious that this is all just really a test of fitness and the mofo that works the hardest the longest the most consistently wins?

Aleks Zebastian wrote:climbing friend, - higher standards - massive muscles meat - we are less lazy than your fat american - bold yet elegant sense of style - condescending and overconfident attitude -extraordinarily tight pants - fun-time-euro dance party - myah

Who is that fat bloke in your personal photo ...always wondered?

Tylerpratt wrote: This is still going on in a lot of places in the country. Hows your bubble of wherever the place you live? I'm sure its great cuz its all you know!

Yup California is a great place.

As someone who climbs mostly at the Red River Gorge, I really don't see this dichotomy as true. Sure, we get lots of strong Europeans coming over, but I see equal numbers of really strong U.S. climbers. The Red's not known for trad/multipitch, so maybe this is an area dependent phenomenon.

They're out climbing instead of sitting at a computer posting on Mountain Project.

Another factor is that Americans work more hours per week than Europeans.

USBRIT wrote: Who is that fat bloke in your personal photo ...always wondered?

The picture is off Alex's twin brother, not necessary biologically connected, Sven Karlsen

I think someone tried to take a picture of Alex, but it broke the camera - the neck meat wouldn't fit.

amarius wrote: The picture is off Alex's twin brother, not necessary biologically connected, Sven Karlsen I think someone tried to take a picture of Alex, but it broke the camera - the neck meat wouldn't fit.

Good one ...looks like quiet a guy ... I have watched that world strong man program..

Also, I get the impression that in Europe climbers tend to go straight into lead climbing and not spend significant amounts of time and energy on top roping.

NorCalNomad wrote: How is living in the 70's still? 8 tracks still going strong?

While those mentalities were strongest in the 70's and 80's the damage they did still continues to this day - otherwise this thread wouldn't exist!

The fight over whether or not sport climbing, and the aforementioned tactics, ought to be accepted as legitimate means of rock climbing held the progress of American rock climbing back a full decade!

As replies in this thread have indicated, the effects aren't uniform across the country. It's not as bad in Red River Gorge as it is in some climbing areas in the north eastern corner of the country.

I have never climbed in europe but more bolts on the wall makes the same difficulty route easier to climb since you are focused more on just pure climbing like you are on top rope than risk of ground / ledge falls.

Maybe it is just a cultural thing too that they feel the need to climb harder where at least me and some others I know the US just climb for fun and rarely really care about trying to climb hard.

"The Euros" seem to do better in some other sports as well. For example, there are almost no elite male tennis players, even though tennis is at least relatively popular here. And even in golf, the Euros seem to do nearly as well as Americans, even though golf is much more popular and played much more widely here (as far as i can tell).
Maybe there is some cultural difference that leads to more sports success, but Europe doesn't have a monolithic culture and they seem to pump out great climbers from different countries, so it's all a bit of a mystery.
(I also agree with the comments that we shouldn't just assume that Euros are better, taking into account total numbers of climbers especially serious climbers, but it does seem that way to me and to most others who somewhat follow the exploits of top level climbers.)

C'mon, it seems this thread has turned to a wrong too close to nazi direction.

There are tons of strong climbers in the U.S. as well as in Europe. There are hordes of idiots thinking they are climbers in Europe as well as in the U.S. I was in both kind of shoes and there is not that much difference.

It seems people here are overestimating some trends they are able to see around. Although there are a lot we can not see 'cause it is too far. We all can see only a small piece of a huge pie. Please, do not overgeneralize.

Just go to yer gym to follow yer training schedule and everything will be fine about yer climbing. Peace.

For one thing, there are a lot more Europeans. Almost 4 times as many as North Americans. Rock climbing is also more popular, so who knows how many more rock climbers there are then in the US and Canada. Many times more. So there is a much larger talent pool to draw from. Also they sport climb, which makes you good at sport climbing, so I've heard.

Kevin DB wrote:For one thing, there are a lot more Europeans. Almost 4 times as many as North Americans. Rock climbing is also more popular, so who knows how many more rock climbers there are then in the US and Canada. Many times more. So there is a much larger talent pool to draw from. Also they sport climb, which makes you good at sport climbing, so I've heard.

What with the last Olympics did not the UK win more medals than the US and the US has nearly four times as many in population ... The UK were only beaten by China ... I am an American by the way

USBRIT wrote: What with the last Olympics did not the UK win more medals than the US and the US has nearly four times as many in population ... The UK were only beaten by China ... I am an American by the way

According to Mark Rippetoe & Lon Kilgore with Glenn Pendlay "Practical Programming for Strength Training" (U.S. authors BTW) this is due to lack of physical culture education in the U.S. "More kids" does not mean "more athletes", because without proper physical training in early childhood most teenagers are not able to be trained for technical sports. As far as I understand, Rippetoe and Kilgore, and Pendlay point is that the most U.S. schools fail to teach kids to control theirs bodies, thus the most U.S. kids can not pretend to become athletes in any technical sport. Thus the key of the problem (if any problem really exists) is an inadequate physical culture education in early ages.